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yaumnik

Bow authenticity - need expert info

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Hi all,

I've been "dormant" on this forum for quite a while.  I need authentication help. Sometime ago, I acquired a bow stick, a really good strong one, that I would it restored to be a played.

I was told it's from late 1800s or early 1900s.  I thought it to be a Poirson. I showed it to 3 local experts who all said that it's a French from a different period and by a better maker, too. I also showed it in NYC and was told that it's not a Poirson and not even a French bow! Big delta in opinions.

Anyone has Paul Childs info? I'd like to contact Paul and perhaps drive over to Montrose, NY if necessary (3 hours each way) to get to the bottom of the bow's origins.

Thanks in advance to all responders!

bow butt.jpg

bow head.jpg

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Looks like a real bow to me, but someone made off with all the hair and the fittings.  Whoever made it used some sort of wood, so it can't be a Glasser. :ph34r::huh::lol:

 

Everybody else is probably going to ask for more and better photos, BTW.  You might consider that.  :)

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2 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Looks like a real bow to me, but someone made off with all the hair and the fittings.  :ph34r::huh::lol:

 

Everybody else is probably going to ask for more photos, BTW.  :)

Thank you for your most helpful and insightful response! :P

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jean@magicbowpublications.com

 

That’s the email address.

extremely detailed photos will be necessary for an initial evaluation but you’ll have to send it to him for anything definite.

you can also tug on Martin’s sleeve a bit once you have better and far more detailed photos. He’s not the only bow expert here, but he’ll know all the others.

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Thank you . Will try to make higher resolution photos in a natural light over the weekend and send them to Paul as well as post here for the forum experts.

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Fiddlecollector is much better at bows than me, but at first glance I wouldn't dismiss French. However the nose looks like it may have been built up a bit ...

The back of the head looks a bit too straight for Poirson. The wood looks very good, but yes, much better photos would help.

Who did you show it to in NYC? If it was Isaac Salchow then I would say "case closed".

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1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

Looks like a real bow to me, but someone made off with all the hair and the fittings.  Whoever made it used some sort of wood, so it can't be a Glasser. :ph34r::huh::lol:

 

Everybody else is probably going to ask for more and better photos, BTW.  You might consider that.  :)

Yes, but aren't the photographs screen shots from Tarisio? Perhaps he just purchased the stick, no fittings included.

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42 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Fiddlecollector is much better at bows than me, but at first glance I wouldn't dismiss French. However the nose looks like it may have been built up a bit ...

The back of the head looks a bit too straight for Poirson. The wood looks very good, but yes, much better photos would help.

Who did you show it to in NYC? If it was Isaac Salchow then I would say "case closed".

FWIW, Isaac Salchow Is Paul Childs’ “go to” guy, these days, so I would agree with Martin. Martin, can you explain what you mean by the nose  being built up?

By the way, there appears to be a crack in the face plateBy the way, there appears to be a crack in the face plate

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Having just had my immense reserve of ignorance infinitesimally reduced by a PM from someone who actually knows something about bows, I need to announce that it could, after all, be a Glasser.  Prior to their patenting of a fiberglass bow in the 1960's, Glasser made wooden bows.  I learn something here every day, it seems.  :)

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8 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

 Martin, can you explain what you mean by the nose  being built up?

 

The front 3-5mm of the bow seems to be new wood - the shape is quite unlike anything you see on a real bow head, and there also seems to be a change in texture and a tiny join line.

Perhaps Yaumnik could give us a detail photo that's not a screenshot from someone else's website ...

It amuses me to think that someone might have extended the bow at the nose to make it more saleable. 

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On first look at the only photos it could be something like Maire workshop /school. But can never be certain  of anything from photos. Has some disturbing looking grain where the underneath of the stick joins the head.

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44 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

Has some disturbing looking grain where the underneath of the stick joins the head.

Yikes, hadn't looked that loosely.

Yes, looks kind of ... broken.

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12 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

FWIW, Isaac Salchow Is Paul Childs’ “go to” guy, these days, so I would agree with Martin. Martin, can you explain what you mean by the nose  being built up?

By the way, there appears to be a crack in the face plateBy the way, there appears to be a crack in the face plate

I do not believe Paul Child’s needs a “go to” guy....

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1 hour ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

I do not believe Paul Child’s needs a “go to” guy....

I meant that Paul recommends him for repairs and such. He sent me to Isaac for a new button for one of my bows. I didn’t intend to imply that Paul went to him for advice about provenance.

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OK, folks. Here're are some more pics I just made with my Nikon DSLR. I wish it was a sunny day with lots of natural bright light, but alas it's a thoroughly cloudy day in the Delaware Valley. Depending on the volume of opinion traffic I'll try to make better photos if/when it gets sunny around here. 

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One comment: When you take pictures of a bow with a white or light background, I find it best to suspend the bow above the background so that the shadow separates away from the bow. Then use the auto-focus to focus on the bow.

I use a stack of books to suspend the bow above the background.

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Excellent advice, thank you! Will do that. I did have a bit of a challenge taking close-up shots, especially of the back of the head. This definitely will help next time.

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Yes I'm afraid I can't really see any details in these photos. Everything needs to be in focus, and dead-on shots with a longer lens are best ...

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10 hours ago, martin swan said:

Yes I'm afraid I can't really see any details in these photos. Everything needs to be in focus, and dead-on shots with a longer lens are best ...

All truth, and the easiest way to get everything in focus is to crank up your F stop setting, manual focus, and shoot from a tripod with a release.  One shouldn't keep a DSLR around to use it like a "point and shoot", with everything on "Auto".  :lol:

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10 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

All truth, and the easiest way to get everything in focus is to crank up your F stop setting, manual focus, and shoot from a tripod with a release.  One shouldn't keep a DSLR around to use it like a "point and shoot", with everything on "Auto".  :lol:

Actually, I used GorillaPod and manual focus, too. But the light was very tricky when I took the shots. Waiting for a nice sunny day, perhaps tomorrow, to retake the shots and will deploy GeorgeH's technique (above) to eliminate the shadows. 

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OK guys, after a few days of overcast and torrential downpour days, on a finally bright sunny day ... Here's another attempt at photos of the bow in question.  Hopefully, this amateur (violinist and photographer)'s skill is good enough this time. :-)

Please chime in!

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I would agree with fiddlecollector that this looks like Pajeot/Maire school and quite a nice stick, albeit with some serious issues.

I did hope at one point that we might be looking at a Persoit but the back of the head is too straight and the chamfers are too broad.

I still can't really see if the nose has been extended but it looks that way.

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Martin,

Thank you for a quick comment!  As this stick was originally attributed to Poirson and he first apprenticed with Maire, are you thinking this could be a Maire?  What other serious issues are you referring to other than possibly extended nose?

P.S. I did place a call to Paul Childs and got his answering service. Waiting for Mr. Childs call back. 

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