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sospiri

String break angle 158 degrees? Where does that come from???

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1 minute ago, David Burgess said:

No glue joint failure required. Do the test, and see what you can learn. Then get back to us.

I said either or.

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20 minutes ago, sospiri said:

The stretching/compression of the heel is what gets me

The other changes you don't have to convince me of.

When setting necks,  it is consistent, observable, and predictable, that a neck graft will lose more projection overtime than a neck that is reset.   

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6 minutes ago, sospiri said:

I said either or.

Yup, you did. So what? Now get busy and do the experiment. Then get back to us with what you have learned.

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6 minutes ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

When setting necks,  it consistent, observable, and predictable, that a neck graft will lose more projection overtime than a neck that is reset.   

Because of what exactly?

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4 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Yup, you did. So what? Now get busy and do the experiment. Then get back to us with what you have learned.

In a similar situation I observed the neck bowing more, enough for the fingerboard to come unstuck.

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17 minutes ago, sospiri said:

No, you're projecting an image onto me.

No, you emanate your own image pretty well without my help. Anyways, good luck 

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2 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Because of what exactly?

Because after years under load, the neck has become closer to its plastic limits.

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1 minute ago, jezzupe said:

No, you emanate your own image pretty well without my help. Anyways, good luck 

With your worldly wise experience of many years you must have figured out long ago that image in an illusion?

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5 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Because of what exactly?

If you really wanna learn something, at some point you have to take part in the process. How many reasons can you think of?

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9 minutes ago, sospiri said:

In a similar situation I observed the neck bowing more, enough for the fingerboard to come unstuck.

Do the experiment. There's a lot more going on, and a properly glued fingerboard will not come unstuck.

Talk to you in five months, when you report back on what you have learned and observed. :)

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1 minute ago, David Burgess said:

Because after years under load, the neck has become closer to its plastic limits.

Which is the point before failure, i.e. the wood fractures.

I know enough to ask pertinent rather than impertinent questions.

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4 minutes ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

If you really wanna learn something, at some point you have to take part in the process. How many reasons can you think of?

Lots and lots. So educated guesses are relevant, but they aren't facts, they are opinions. Hypothetheses not facts.

I don't want to make a neck with not enough depth that it may bow too much even without extremes of humidity. Some necks seem to be lacking that depth to me.

You mentioned the ribs moving backwards (or similar) and this makes sense to me. I'm thinking about how the instrument finds its own equilibreum and changes versus an instrument that remains very stable for 100 years.

But if it's going through extreme humidity changes then it can't remain stable.

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4 minutes ago, sospiri said:

 

I know enough to ask pertinent rather than impertinent questions.

Convince me. :lol:

Why are you still yacking, instead of doing your homework assignment?

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Just now, David Burgess said:

Convince me. :lol:

Why are you still yacking, instead of doing your homework assignment?

Because this place is addictive and it's all your fault Burgess!

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14 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Lots and lots. So educated guesses are relevant, but they aren't facts, they are opinions. Hypothetheses not facts.

Great, give me "lots and lots" of reasons why this can happen?

I don't want to make a neck with not enough depth that it may bow too much even without extremes of humidity. Some necks seem to be lacking that depth to me.

Do your homework and let us know what that depth is.

You mentioned the ribs moving backwards (or similar) and this makes sense to me. I'm thinking about how the instrument finds its own equilibreum and changes versus an instrument that remains very stable for 100 years.

No I did not.

But if it's going through extreme humidity changes then it can't remain stable.

You are getting there! How about you learn about the properties of wood now and get back to us.

 

2116612024_51u0YZmtaWL._SX258_BO1204203200_.jpg.fe1f311599d374adf77a9899ad63d4c3.jpg

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13 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

The sacred text! The first thing Tom Sparks ever handed me was that book. 

Indeed it is, it should be mandatory.  The young lady who managed the business went back to school to study wood technology at NC State, and it was required reading for them as well.

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32 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Lots and lots. So educated guesses are relevant, but they aren't facts, they are opinions. Hypothetheses not facts.

 

Okay how about 5?..

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2 hours ago, sospiri said:

I don't have any evidence of this either. That's a polite way of saying I don't believe you.

But because I don't use emojis, It gives the impression of me being rude.

The plain truth is, I just got bored with emojis way back before they became customised.

If I was being rude I would say BOLLOCKS!

But really I'm just saying I don't believe you. Feel free to convince me it's true.

 

Here you go again.  Jerry answers you in civil voice, with a degree decency.  He's experienced and has seen the phenomena. He's responding to your question which professes ignorance on the subject, but also throws in some random baseless guesses about it.  Jerry's patient response gives you the commonly shared community take on the issues.  Something that's been said countless times on MN, and your response?

It's foolish, disrespectful, and yes, rude.

However you worked around to it, you delivered an all caps, bold, exclamation point bullocks. That's rude.

You hold your random unfounded ideas in too high a regard. 

If you visit a community of cattle farmers and say, " I've never seen a cow. I think they're purple."  When the farmers say "Naw. We got brown ones. And white, and black and white. Not purple."  When you come back with, "NO! I don't believe. Prove it.  They MUST be purple."  Such a response is not only rude, but mostly it's foolish and stupid.

 

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2 hours ago, sospiri said:

Because of what exactly?

Facts and observations win.  When the observable realities contradict our theories, our theories haven't invalid reality.  It's the other way around.

When everyone who every made or reworked a neck reports that after a year or two under string tension the projection very often sags some, and almost always the mortise join itself remains intact.  Well, you just don't get to say "I don't understand how the neck wood can deform, so until you make me understand the necks didn't sag".  Wood and all reality don't need your understanding to do as they do.

Now, you could fairly pose scepticism in more moderated ways.  There's nothing wrong, for example, with saying "It seems unlikely to me that such thick and solid maple neck roots could deform much. Is it proven that that part is deforming? Are there other possible explainations?  Maybe the skinny long neck is deforming instead or also?  Maybe the upper bout area or body are deforming instead or also? Has this been studied?"  Etc.

But the many times confirmed observation that projections sag stands. Facts and well confirmed observations get to shape our understanding, not the other way around.

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Monday morning, perhaps Jeffrey will look in and put a stop to this madness.

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4 hours ago, sospiri said:

 So educated guesses are relevant, but they aren't facts, they are opinions. Hypothetheses not facts.

 

Everything we think we know about the universe consists of hypotheseeeeeees, which check enough of the boxes, that some people consider them to be facts. Until some other hypothesis comes into favor. ;)

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2 hours ago, Televet said:

Monday morning, perhaps Jeffrey will look in and put a stop to this madness.

Gosh is this still going on?  Seems rather circular... I hope Sospiri has enough information now to form his own hypothesis at this point.  Over and out.

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