Sign in to follow this  
antero

ID. German violin

Recommended Posts

Hi there!

I asked for an advise regardind strings for baroque instrument on the other thread, so why not show, what for.

Old, several times repaired German  violin in Baroque setting.

Please make your guess regarding both time (range) of manufacture and the maker (workshop).

What to add to the pictures: scroll fluting goes right to the throat, back seam is cleated. But this is part of one repair, I think.

Funny scroll - right eye is higher than left if you look en face. Purfling partly replaced and thus wonky in some places.

Labels:repair label from 1884, remnants of another label and 2 branded letters.

And again, sorry for the quality of photos...

IMG_4540.JPG

IMG_4536.JPG

IMG_4537.JPG

IMG_4535.JPG

IMG_4541.JPG

IMG_4542.JPG

IMG_4543.JPG

IMG_4544.JPG

IMG_4545.JPG

IMG_4548.JPG

IMG_4552.JPG

IMG_4555.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Does it have walnut linings?

Dark wood yes, but if it is walnut, I have no idea.

Cleated and doubled a lot; top and bottom blocks look replaced, some corner blocks as well, I think.

Few pics from inside.

Snapshot000008.jpg

Snapshot000007.jpg

Snapshot000000.jpg

Snapshot000001.jpg

Snapshot000002.jpg

Snapshot000004.jpg

Snapshot000005.jpg

Snapshot000003.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One may almost presume that it is a Leopold Widhalm of Nürnberg. Widhalm is in a way less a person than a shop, and they madethe  same violins for three generations. For this reason yours could be as late as the 1810 one I have next to my computer now. Unfortunatly there is quite a lot tht has been changed/ repaired. I wrote a detailed piece on Widhalm here 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Blank Face, shame on you. There was I trying to be a gentleman and leaving the "reveal" to Jacob ....

Oh, I didn't take any notice of him anyway:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Not wishing to sidetrack things, but from which areas can one expect to see walnut linings?
I heard Prague was one such place.

Definitely found in some Strnad instruments ... and saw a Kulik recently with walnut.

I believe I've seen a Camilli with walnut linings too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Blank Face, shame on you. There was I trying to be a gentleman and leaving the "reveal" to Jacob ....

 

17 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Oh, I didn't take any notice of him anyway:)

Thought he went to bed in the meantime, but supposed the link would do the same:lol:.

17 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Not wishing to sidetrack things, but from which areas can one expect to see walnut linings?
I heard Prague was one such place.

First who comes to mind is Stainer.

Many Viennese have them, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from Stainer & Widhalm, some old Viennese do. I have a Mayr Salzburg witrh walnut linings, although I have a second ne with maple linings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

couldnt find the thread regarding the violin strings, so I thought I'd Reply here. Look at this site for good stringing (early vs late baroque stringing advise): https://www.pure-corde-shop.com/Violin-gut-strings-set 

This seller has the product descriptions from several respected manufacturers all together on one site, which is good for comparison. https://shop.stringking.net/category/violin_strings1

Here in Germany, many use a luxline d string from Kürschner: https://www.kuerschner-saiten.de/einzelsaiten-single-strings/luxline/

I'm a Cellist and mostly use Aquila (is available at the lutier around the Corner), but actually like Toro a bit better. My Partners choice for violin however is Aquila over Toro anytime for e, a and g, but Kürschner Luxline for d. That said, Pure corde seems to be the new Thing to do for a few years now in the early Music world, so next time I restring I will try that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

One may almost presume that it is a Leopold Widhalm of Nürnberg

Thanks everyone!

Well, I have of course read many of the referenced previous threads and was hoping for this outcome, but as you know - opinion is not a certificate.

It is a nice but heavily repaired violin, and yet less damaged than the one I showed some time ago (Friedrich Hoyer) that by now has also been restored to reasonable state and is well usable as a violin in the modern setting.

The other thread was: How does plain gut wear?

The question regarding string diameters is still standing, I was not happy with Chordas; but the other producers offer such a wide variety I got confused...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, antero said:

 

The question regarding string diameters is still standing, I was not happy with Chordas; but the other producers offer such a wide variety I got confused...

Look at the info @stringking. Aquila gives recommendations, and until you develop your own Preference, I'd try out what they recommend as a medium set. All you have to decide it wether you prefer late or early baroque. Everything else is finetuning to your taste and can take place every time you renew your strings. I would recommend as a first improvemet to try a luxline d string from Kürschner, whom you can simply ask for the luxline equivalent of a given bare gut string.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, antero said:

Thanks everyone!

Well, I have of course read many of the referenced previous threads and was hoping for this outcome, but as you know - opinion is not a certificate.

It is a nice but heavily repaired violin, and yet less damaged than the one I showed some time ago (Friedrich Hoyer) that by now has also been restored to reasonable state and is well usable as a violin in the modern setting.

The other thread was: How does plain gut wear?

The question regarding string diameters is still standing, I was not happy with Chordas; but the other producers offer such a wide variety I got confused...

I have tried  few things with gut strings, Toro, Aquila, and ordered from stringking… now I'm back on Chorda mostly (shame on me).

However, the standard Chordas are intended to be tuned at 440Hz. If you tune to a lower 'baroque' pitch, you'll want to try the heavy gauge Chordas.

Also, I found the effect of different rosins to be greater than the effect of different stings (or brands).

You may find this interesting:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think in all my years of reading the posts here this is the first post I’ve read where the alleged violin actually turned out to be genuine.

good for you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, martin swan said:

What a pity it doesn't have its original neck.

Is this a trade term for grafted scroll ?

If you are referring to the complete neck, how have you determined this, as I see no obvious change at the neck root ? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Delabo said:

Is this a trade term for grafted scroll ?

If you are referring to the complete neck, how have you determined this, as I see no obvious change at the neck root ? :)

Not exactly - though the graft in this case is a sign that the rest of the neck is later.

I suppose it depends on the exact date but for me this violin would not have been made originally with a mortise in the top block. So it's set up as a baroque instrument yet the neck has been modernised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I think in all my years of reading the posts here this is the first post I’ve read where the alleged violin actually turned out to be genuine.

good for you!

It's really not that uncommon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I think in all my years of reading the posts here this is the first post I’ve read where the alleged violin actually turned out to be genuine.

good for you!

I think it depends on the context. Most things up for id are famous “Italians” from eBay, it’s no surprise that 99.999999% of these are some cheap rotter, with a label glued in the day before they were listed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I think in all my years of reading the posts here this is the first post I’ve read where the alleged violin actually turned out to be genuine.

good for you!

Interestingly are there in fact many genuine violins out there. One could even say, that every violin is genuine, but sometimes (or often) not in the way some may believe.

Just these which are believed to be something else seem to attract much more attention than those being simply what they are, that's the psychology.B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Blank face said:

Just these which are believed to be something else seem to attract much more attention than those being simply what they are, that's the psychology.

Yes, that's true.

I try not to bother you with the ones that have (more or less) credible labels (contemporary Italians included), because its not so much fun.

Or the ones, which's labelling does not make much difference (i. S., e.g.)

But the string issue is still up:

Is the near bridge area really SO MUCH scratchier with gut than is with modern? Or is my rosin too wrong for gut (Andrea Solo) ? I tried to use it very gingerly ( I like the word) ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Guido said:

However, the standard Chordas are intended to be tuned at 440Hz. If you tune to a lower 'baroque' pitch

But this is exactly what I did...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.