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dyyoung

I hope to get help

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4 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

The Chinese are attracted to Western luxury goods. Status symbols.  Tianjin Seagull and DG make some excellent watches, but China has been a wonderful market for the Swiss. 

I feel that it's the "Vienna" that hooked him.  That might even be true.  Maybe Jacob S. needs to keep closer tabs on his rubbish bin.  :lol:

Not presuming to answer for Martin, but it looks and sounds to me as if that's not too far off.  IMHO, "The usual".  :rolleyes:

Some of the 1to1 copies are MIND BLOWING, I saw a fake Audemars Piguet Royal Oak that was so spot on that I had to examine it for a REAL long time to finally catch a few VERY small tells, all I can say is the fraud market is getting worse and worse, or better and better depending on your perspective, and that thank god guys like Melving are not a dime a dozen because someone like he could pull off some pretty mean fakes if they wanted too.

As complex as a watch is, fortunately it's still an easier thing to fake well than a violin.

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

I believe it SHOULD be April 22nd...:ph34r:

...I didn't want the 'n' to feel left out...

:D I guess I would not write fake certificates well, either. 

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10 minutes ago, martin swan said:

We all find these violins with such open c-bout curves a bit odd.

Apart from cut-down violas and a couple of mid 18th century Genoese makers, the only other place we find this detail is in earlier "Bohemian" instruments. But looking at the violin in totality, yes I think it's some kind of quirky MK/Sch thing.

Btw. the sort of people who perpetrate these frauds are not into spending time or money. Making bench copies or genuine fakes is really far too much work - they rely entirely on the ignorance and optimism of buyers, and it's much easier to fake a certificate than a dalla Costa. For this reason I think this whole argument a out giving them too much information is spurious - the more genuine examples out there the better., 

Well I think it's that their English is SO bad , that they literally used us as a "spell check" for their Cert. The info imparted was not so much the pictures, but the critic over the cert, "they/he" wanted to know what we would find wrong with the cert. 

I mean if you were a Nigerian Prince trying to write your first letter to let some lucky guy to let him  know that he could get cut in on the royal fortune, well nothing like having a nice English speaker help you spell check your work and tighten up that grammar.

On this day, the April of the 24nd I swear this to be trues

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3 minutes ago, jezzupe said:

Some of the 1to1 copies are MIND BLOWING, I saw a fake Audemars Piguet Royal Oak that was so spot on that I had to examine it for a REAL long time to finally catch a few VERY small tells, all I can say is the fraud market is getting worse and worse, or better and better depending on your perspective, and that thank god guys like Melving are not a dime a dozen because someone like he could pull off some pretty mean fakes if they wanted too.

As complex as a watch is, fortunately it's still an easier thing to fake well than a violin.

I could seriously get into this, but I see it as a topic for WatchUSeek or WaHa, etc..  However, it is interesting that the slew of recent authentic Swiss dumping on the gray market (an example's on my wrist as I type) followed close on the heels of the constriction in the Chinese foreign-luxuries market due to tightening up of Chinese anti-corruption laws.  The Swiss watch industry had gotten rather dependent on the Chinese market.

BTW, the OP could be perfectly sincere and still have excellent reason to bolt.  The Chinese legal environment is....ummmmm....peculiar.  :)

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Do tell - they have accused us of inferior canola!  All retaliatory!

But, since we're on the brink of war with the Philippines, I guess that issue will have to wait...

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6 minutes ago, Rue said:

Do tell - they have accused us of inferior canola!  All retaliatory!

But, since we're on the brink of war with the Philippines, I guess that issue will have to wait...

One hopes that both sides in this Garbagegeddon don't invoke their US defense treaties.  :lol:

 

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16 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

I could seriously get into this, but I see it as a topic for WatchUSeek or WaHa, etc..  However, it is interesting that the slew of recent authentic Swiss dumping on the gray market (an example's on my wrist as I type) followed close on the heels of the constriction in the Chinese foreign-luxuries market due to tightening up of Chinese anti-corruption laws.  The Swiss watch industry had gotten rather dependent on the Chinese market.

BTW, the OP could be perfectly sincere and still have excellent reason to bolt.  The Chinese legal environment is....ummmmm....peculiar.  :)

mmm' watch talk, quite the astonomia'ical topic , I love hor'ology :lol:, because it feels so wrong to be right , like I can wear a 15 lb invicta and rock it like the sledge hammer it is and no one can stop me! or I'll beat them to death with it :lol:

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20 minutes ago, jezzupe said:

mmm' watch talk, quite the astonomia'ical topic , I love hor'ology :lol:, because it feels so wrong to be right , like I can wear a 15 lb invicta and rock it like the sledge hammer it is and no one can stop me! or I'll beat them to death with it :lol:

If I gotta defend myself with my Victorinox AirBoss you'll find out it weighs just as much as your (tasteless and depreciating) Zeus Bolt does.  :P

Invicta!  OMG!  We've brought the Invicta Wars to MN.  :ph34r::lol:

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1 hour ago, jezzupe said:

Well I think it's that their English is SO bad , that they literally used us as a "spell check" for their Cert. The info imparted was not so much the pictures, but the critic over the cert, "they/he" wanted to know what we would find wrong with the cert. 

 

The main thing that's wrong with the cert is that it doesn't look anything like a Paul Voigt certificate and it isn't written like a certificate.

Add to that a violin that looks nothing like a dalla Costa, and I think it's hard to take all this so seriously. Would anyone have been unwise enough to part with any significant amount of money? Generally these sales are pitched low, at a level where even a 1 in 10 chance it's real might be worth shelling out for ...

I'm sympathetic towards anyone who would be taken in my such lame stuff, but since it was obviously sold (if it was sold) in a context where you would be wise to carry shark repellant, I'm not that sympathetic.

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I was talking about a very well-done counterfeit French violin with an expert appraiser.

The violin had some remarkable construction details that were unusual and also associated with the supposed maker. There was also a decent label and brands in the right places. But it was a fake.

He said that the best counterfeiters will get a violin and study it very closely to see what it is, and then based on those details, they decide what it can be. And then they turn it into that.

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

If I gotta defend myself with my Victorinox AirBoss you'll find out it weighs just as much as your (tasteless and depreciating) Zeus Bolt does.  :P

Invicta!  OMG!  We've brought the Invicta Wars to MN.  :ph34r::lol:

How'd you know that? is my "size" issue that apparent?  I do love my ZB Koi, I have my eye on a 73mm sea hunter, that way the ladies will know what they're dealing with  :lol: also helps one sink to the bottom faster,lol

 

42 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

My boy has a Breitling...

(sniff)

Hmm' slumming it, :lol:, I kid

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21 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The main thing that's wrong with the cert is that it doesn't look anything like a Paul Voigt certificate and it isn't written like a certificate.

Add to that a violin that looks nothing like a dalla Costa, and I think it's hard to take all this so seriously. Would anyone have been unwise enough to part with any significant amount of money? Generally these sales are pitched low, at a level where even a 1 in 10 chance it's real might be worth shelling out for ...

I'm sympathetic towards anyone who would be taken in my such lame stuff, but since it was obviously sold (if it was sold) in a context where you would be wise to carry shark repellant, I'm not that sympathetic.

Well Martin, all I know, is that you know what your talking about.

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10 hours ago, jezzupe said:

well all I know is I wonder if op is the op or is op the dealer pretending to be the op

I say this because there are "things" that are strange, for example it is suggested that he "should" buy the violin, then we are told he already bought it...

anyways, my late night voluntary violin police activities are done for the evening :lol:, hope everything works out for everyone...

 

I can finally reply. I really want to answer your reply. You have to know that the new ID is limited. The reply is only 2 times a day. So I can't reply after I gave you the PM twice. In your reply later, I said that I disappeared. The reason is that you did not understand the reason. Please do not make unreasonable inferences because of your lack of understanding. I don't understand why your position always feels like I am a liar (but what exactly did I lie to?), I am a student who is learning to play the violin. Isn't it reasonable to find a traditional Italian violin? Why is this post? I just want to seek help to identify the authenticity of this violin. I wonder if I have been deceived. Is this not reasonable? I have never asked for or induced a professional picture of you to post genuine products. I am not a violin maker who does not understand the importance of these authentic pictures to the counterfeiters, but I am grateful that your reply will allow me to learn this. knowledge. You have to know that in my country, you can't use GOOGLE to search for relevant knowledge. As for let me tell you that their name responded before me, I don't know even their real names. I am also very willing to expose their fraudulent behavior to warn other buyers. But I tell you that they are meaningful in the network ID "ABCD"? I have another chance to reply today.

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32 minutes ago, jezzupe said:

How'd you know that? is my "size" issue that apparent?  I do love my ZB Koi, I have my eye on a 73mm sea hunter, that way the ladies will know what they're dealing with  :lol: also helps one sink to the bottom faster,lol

 

Hmm' slumming it, :lol:, I kid

I only wear a Skagen so I’m the one slummin’

haha.

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3 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I only wear a Skagen so I’m the one slummin’

haha.

Not necessarily, the Miyota 8215 is a respectable Japanese automatic movement made by Citizen.  Of course, if you are wearing one of their quartz watches, please walk on the other side of the street........... ;):ph34r:

It is interesting that the modern watch business has many parallels with the violin business, not only where fakery, snobbery, and indefensible markups over cost are concerned, but also in having a variety of differing markets at different price levels which run nearly independently of each other.  Horology is a study in itself, but I'll take the time to say that, unless you are really interested in cute little mechanisms, or in jewelry that ticks, a ten-dollar waterproof multi-function digital from Wal-Mart is probably as good a timekeeper as anything on the market.  :lol:

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40 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

 a ten-dollar waterproof multi-function digital from Wal-Mart is probably as good a timekeeper as anything on the market.  :lol:

It is useless for shock and awe the peasants though.

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2 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

It is useless for shock and awe the peasants though.

And, well you can't take it off your wrist and beat them to death with it unless it's an invicta, and Skagen is a very respectable watch company....

The only way I can even think about super high over 5/6 figure watches is to think of them as investments, because I think it's kinda coo'coo to wear a 100,000$ watch as, you know, a watch, unless your someone like Producer Michael, who if you don't know who that is, look him up on utube, he's everyone's favorite lovable multimillionaire who just loves to spend his money on stuff. 

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On 4/24/2019 at 6:03 PM, Violadamore said:

 

  

Max Kaufman,  a traveling violin dealer that periodically showed up on U.S. musicians and makers doorsteps in the 1970's and 80's,  always had  a gold Rolex watch or two tucked away in the music pocket of one of his violin cases,  which he would offer if his violins weren't to your taste.   

 

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26 minutes ago, Lawrence Furse said:

Max Kaufman,  a traveling violin dealer that periodically showed up on U.S. musicians and makers doorsteps in the 1970's and 80's,  always had  a gold Rolex watch or two tucked away in the music pocket of one of his violin cases,  which he would offer if his violins weren't to your taste.   

 

Sounds like a colorful character.  Were the Rolexes as Swiss as the violins were Italian?  :o

I'll note that back in the 70's and before, when all watches were mechanical, Rolex wasn't all that expensive.  Neither were most violins.

Rolex is probably the most commonly faked brand in the business (there's even a subgenre of the watchmaking hobby that rolls its own Rolex "replicas" from look-alike parts and Swiss ETA movements), but, as with violins, fakers don't stop with the big names.  Last month I stumbled on a Chinese website offering "replica" Invictas in quantity.  :rolleyes::lol:

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6 hours ago, jezzupe said:

And, well you can't take it off your wrist and beat them to death with it unless it's an invicta,

Ja. Go directly to smash the peasants.

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18 hours ago, dyyoung said:

I can finally reply. I really want to answer your reply. You have to know that the new ID is limited. The reply is only 2 times a day. So I can't reply after I gave you the PM twice. In your reply later, I said that I disappeared. The reason is that you did not understand the reason. Please do not make unreasonable inferences because of your lack of understanding. I don't understand why your position always feels like I am a liar (but what exactly did I lie to?), I am a student who is learning to play the violin. Isn't it reasonable to find a traditional Italian violin? Why is this post? I just want to seek help to identify the authenticity of this violin. I wonder if I have been deceived. Is this not reasonable? I have never asked for or induced a professional picture of you to post genuine products. I am not a violin maker who does not understand the importance of these authentic pictures to the counterfeiters, but I am grateful that your reply will allow me to learn this. knowledge. You have to know that in my country, you can't use GOOGLE to search for relevant knowledge. As for let me tell you that their name responded before me, I don't know even their real names. I am also very willing to expose their fraudulent behavior to warn other buyers. But I tell you that they are meaningful in the network ID "ABCD"? I have another chance to reply today.

Google blocked - that would be China? 

It seems that most violins in the market today have fake or otherwise unreliable labels. And many certificates are flawed if not completely faked. 

A student would be best advised to find a nice violin with good sound, and not worry about labels or certificates or provenance until much later.

 

Oddly enough the desk next to mine at work is usually occupied by a rean Nigerian prince. And his English is better than mine.

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18 hours ago, dyyoung said:

I can finally reply. I really want to answer your reply. You have to know that the new ID is limited. The reply is only 2 times a day. So I can't reply after I gave you the PM twice. In your reply later, I said that I disappeared. The reason is that you did not understand the reason. Please do not make unreasonable inferences because of your lack of understanding. I don't understand why your position always feels like I am a liar (but what exactly did I lie to?), I am a student who is learning to play the violin. Isn't it reasonable to find a traditional Italian violin? Why is this post? I just want to seek help to identify the authenticity of this violin. I wonder if I have been deceived. Is this not reasonable? I have never asked for or induced a professional picture of you to post genuine products. I am not a violin maker who does not understand the importance of these authentic pictures to the counterfeiters, but I am grateful that your reply will allow me to learn this. knowledge. You have to know that in my country, you can't use GOOGLE to search for relevant knowledge. As for let me tell you that their name responded before me, I don't know even their real names. I am also very willing to expose their fraudulent behavior to warn other buyers. But I tell you that they are meaningful in the network ID "ABCD"? I have another chance to reply today.

You are new member.  Less than 10 posts, not allowed to post direct.  Administrator must approve posts for new members.  Administrator is not constantly on duty.  You wait until he reads and approves.  We all had this happen when we were new.

Some readers here are skeptical of your posts.  This happens because there have been false posts sometimes in past.  Ignore the negative comments and continue to post.  We will try to help you.

The violin described in your pictures and your comments looks like better-grade but mass-produced German violin made 120 years ago.  The violin label is false.  False labels in violins are commonly seen in posts here.  :)

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3 hours ago, saintjohnbarleycorn said:

maybe this guy is the crook himself and getting you to point out all his mistakes so he can correct them and do a better job of of cheating people 

To reiterate - the last thing someone presenting a violin with a fake certificate would do is to seek exposure on a public forum.

The idea that we are "teaching the fakers how to succeed" is a kind of hubris.

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