neck back ribs

[ramy]

We all know that back, ribs, neck of a violin should be made of the same wood, then if i can clearly see grains or flames or figures "whatever :D" on both back and ribs but not on the neck!! What could that tell us? And DO NECK WOOD AFFECT SOOUND QUALITY???

and thank you so much for your answers 

[Anthony Panke]

It tells us that the neck has unflamed wood. This is often done to make it easier to carve the scroll. 

Good neck wood should be stiff and low density, stiff to withstand the string tension, low density so as not to dampen the sound. 

The neck itself does not vibrate, but it transmits vibrations into the body.

Hope that helps a bit

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, Anthony Panke said:

The neck itself does not vibrate, but it transmits vibrations into the body.

How does the neck transmit vibrations into the body, if it does not vibrate?

[Anthony Panke]

Ok, well pointed out.

It does not considerably contribute to the amplitude of sound per se, but facilitates amplification of the corpus.

 

[duane88]

7 minutes ago, Anthony Panke said:

Ok, well pointed out.

It does not considerably contribute to the amplitude of sound per se, but facilitates amplification of the corpus.

 

So why, then, when a collar or pip on a peg is loose do we have a buzz that the conductor can hear? 

Clamp a small C-clamp(padded, of course) to the scroll and play the violin.  Put a glob of modeling clay under the end of the fingerboard and play. What happens.

 

[Anthony Panke]

The neck will not considerably amplify the sound by emitting it’s own vibrations, it just receives vibrations from the pegbox and brings them to the top block. Try knocking on a shaped neck (without the pegbox or corpus). It will be quiet. 

Try knocking a strung violin by the neck, and it makes a much louder sound. 

The fingerboard is a different issue, where it overhangs the end of the neck.

None of us are wrong here, just miscommunication (mainly on my part).

[David Beard]

5 hours ago, ramy said:

We all know that back, ribs, neck of a violin should be made of the same wood, then if i can clearly see grains or flames or figures "whatever :D" on both back and ribs but not on the neck!! What could that tell us? And DO NECK WOOD AFFECT SOOUND QUALITY???

and thank you so much for your answers 

We don't all know that.

Using such matching wood is a visually perk, not any important acoustic princple. 

Also, it happens much less consistently in classical work then you might expect.

[baroquecello]

Well first of all, they don't Need to be made from the same type of Wood at all, from a structural Point of view, it is a purely aesthetic consideration. 

The stiffness of the neck supposedly influences the Sound and playing chacteristics. There are makers that improve the strength of the neck by adding dowels of various possible materials, including Carbon fibre, and report that the Sound and playing characteristics seem to improve. I believe some are here on the board. Stiffer seems better, I believe.

[nathan slobodkin]

Absolutely no reason to make Back, ribs and scroll of the same wood except if you like the look.

[Don Noon]

I prefer neck wood on the high density side, for several reasons.  Stiffness and strength are closely related to density, and I'd rather have necks that don't bend/warp, less chance of heel cracks and pegbox cracks, less wear on the peg holes, and I can safely make a thinner neck.  It's harder to carve, but I'd rather have that other stuff.

[jezzupe]

the most important part about "neck wood" and or the neck itself , beyond and assuming it is properly carved correctly. Is that the neck wood gives the maker the ability to help balance the weight gradient that translates down to the over all feel of balance when under the chin, which all in all translates to feel related to play-ability.

Quite simply we do not want to construct a heavy corpus {based on material choices} and then choose a light airy piece of neck wood, this causes a bottom heavy feel, we would want something more hefty to go with the heavy body in order to front load some of the the weight of the total instrument.

It is surprising what a couple of grams here or there on the tip of the "mast" will do as far as feel and balance goes, particularly for people who play without shoulder rests. 

As for sonic enhancement or degradation, I will not get into that too much as it's pure speculation based on "feelings" 

[Fiddlemaker5224]

I was taught every part of the instruments vibrate. Including the Neck when the denser wood was used in the Neck the instrument sounded fine. Once I had a quilted maple board that was to thin for the neck so I laminated a 3 mm piece of ebony in the middle. That took care of the Thickness and added stiffness to the neck improving the sound.

 

 

[jezzupe]

Stiffness and or rigidity in the entire system is important.  Quite simply we don't want un-needed undulations robbing precious energy from the system. 

For every drop of energy not wasted in torque is a drop of energy gained or shifted to the plates

[The Violin Beautiful]

9 hours ago, ramy said:

We all know that back, ribs, neck of a violin should be made of the same wood, then if i can clearly see grains or flames or figures "whatever :D" on both back and ribs but not on the neck!! What could that tell us? And DO NECK WOOD AFFECT SOOUND QUALITY???

and thank you so much for your answers 

I agree that most of the advantage of matching wood is aesthetic. One other thought is that matching wood pieces are more likely to behave similarly for the luthier, making outcomes more predictable. 

One advantage to using neck wood that has less figure is that it’s easier to carve than hard, heavily figured wood. Some argue that deep flames distract from the presentation of the scroll, others find plain wood boring. 

As to the effect on sound, I can’t definitively answer whether wood choice/figure improves things or not, but I have found that reducing heavy and thick necks seems to add a bit to the sound quality. 

[Shunyata]

Absolutely not an expert on this, but I think I have to agree with Jezzupe.  You want vibration in the body, and less being transmitted elsewhere.  A rigid neck could be part of limiting this extraneous vibration.

  

[Wood Butcher]

6 hours ago, Fiddlemaker5224 said:

Once I had a quilted maple board that was to thin for the neck so I laminated a 3 mm piece of ebony in the middle. That took care of the Thickness and added stiffness to the neck improving the sound.

How can you say it improved the sound, did you try an unlaminated neck first to compare?

[Fiddlemaker5224]

14 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

How can you say it improved the sound, did you try an unlaminated neck first to compare?

Yes, that was tried. The neck was bowing under string tension. So I tried that as a fix for the wood that was to flexible. Yes I scrapped that old neck.

[Wood Butcher]

Thanks. I have not used quilted maple before, but I didn't realize it was much weaker than other maples.