Sign in to follow this  
millant

Bow stamped "Peccatte". What do you think?

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

How do you know its not a matter of dominate hand-iness ?? again ,as what i notice is the dovetail track on his frogs often  tend to have more taper on one side whereas the other is often almost straight.  I know i cut the pearl slide to fit the  dovetail track not the other way around.

Because on the slides I am referring to, the pearl and the petit talon are one piece.  I suspect, not my idea BTW, that the one side of the liner was made, then the petit talon was glued and pinned square to the a side with the eventual joint square, then the pearl was glued into place.  The square side was filed to dovetail, then the rest of the pearl/talon slide was fit to the frog...the original side would not be touched. This would result in exactly what we see. I hope I described that well.  Also, if memory serves, it is not always the same side...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes i know they are one piece but the method or sequence of operation of making and fitting the slide can be highly debatable.  Certainly these type of slides confuse the ones who try to remove the pearl not knowing its one piece with the heelplate.  These slides  do tend to  push the heelplate off at the back of the frog corner as well .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

Yes i know they are one piece but the method or sequence of operation of making and fitting the slide can be highly debatable.  Certainly these type of slides confuse the ones who try to remove the pearl not knowing its one piece with the heelplate.  These slides  do tend to  push the heelplate off at the back of the frog corner as well .

Sure, debate all day.  The one side is dead on or very close to square with the other not....so how did that work, and why?  Even with the debate, slides wear out, and these slides quicker than most, especially the gold bows. They are also more difficult to replace, so who replaced them?  And when they were replaced do you suppose he never saw that one side was square and the other not?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

I have, generally before I post.  You insist on making it about a character flaw; something that was a mistake, that he didn't care, or that he did tuned up on wine or absinth.  That is not purposeful.  Words mean things.  

It's difficult to communicate if all tongue in cheek is taken literally. For the better I'm supposing deliberately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Blank face said:

It's difficult to communicate if all tongue in cheek is taken literally. For the better I'm supposing deliberately.

My apologies, I generally tend to take an individual’s words as representative of what they mean to communicate.  My bad....I guess it stems from being humorless...B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

Sure, debate all day.  The one side is dead on or very close to square with the other not....so how did that work, and why?  Even with the debate, slides wear out, and these slides quicker than most, especially the gold bows. They are also more difficult to replace, so who replaced them?  And when they were replaced do you suppose he never saw that one side was square and the other not?  

When ive made these type of slides on a new frog, ive cut the coulisse straight ,then mark the length of the heelplate with a pencil on top of the frog. (done before gluing and pinning   the back long heel plate)

I then fit the heelplate into the coulisse from the back of the frog so that it only goes in to the mark.  I then work from the other ferrule end of the coulisse and only taper fit to the mark (where the heel plate ends). So the heel plate is in square but the pearl slide part  is slightly tapered.

Ive done this for a while as ive noticed a lot that the pearl slide part is often wider on both sides where it joins the small heel plate(even on the ones with a one piece pearl/heelplate). Ive also noticed often a  faint little knife cut on the ebony of the frog ,where the   end of the small heel plate is .

 

small heel.JPG

pec.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

Does the first picture show the knife cut, and if so, what is the arrow pointing towards..

What looks like another knifecut.(the pale line) Its more of a score than a cut.

It of course may just be where someone is trying to wedge a knife in to remove a slide that in this case wont move (as in a normal slide) and caught the frog. But ive noticed it on quite a few and always on the same side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

All true Nate, but I have spent a considerable amount of time also specifically making bows, restoring bows, and working with people that have a great deal of French bow making history behind them.  My issue is with the characterization that that it was ever seen as a flaw, or something for which he would have had to make an excuse, or claim "good enough", or that he must have been tuned up to always get wrong....I do not believe that was the thought process.  And yes, Peccatte was very specifically, intentionally, and consciously creating asymmetry in his bows as we can see in his pearl slides. This is not unlike someone claiming Cremonese violins being asymmetrical is a flaw, or that Tony thought the asymmetry was "good enough", or that he must have been three sheets to the wind to always get wrong ....can you not agree that he probably did not see this asymmetry as a flaw?

Maybe sometime we can discuss privately the characterization of Rene' as "sort of a French Archie Bunker".

Jerry,

I'm sure it would help if my skills with this machine allowed me to quote  only the pertinent snippets of people's posts.

I am not saying that Pecatte or Strad saw these asymmetries as flaws that they were willing to let go. But I absolutely can't believe that the individual asymmetries were intended. I am saying that assymetry as a whole was not considered a flaw and resulted from the physical process of manufacture not from conscious intent.

By the way I did not intend any disrespect of Rene by comparing him to Archie Bunker. He was a complicated man from what Americans would consider a  working class background who was very sophisticated in some ways yet extraordinarily uninformed or prejudiced in others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Who is "Archie Bunker"?

The main character in an old very-popular American TV comedy series called "All in the Family."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

The main character in an old very-popular American TV comedy series called "All in the Family."

Is that one of those American Sit-Coms that laughs at itself to save you having to bother?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Is that one of those American Sit-Coms that laughs at itself to save you having to bother?

Since you were about 12 years old when it first aired, you would have had to have a rather advanced sense of humor to get the satire.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Is that one of those American Sit-Coms that laughs at itself to save you having to bother?

No, it was filmed in front of a live audience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.