new york neck reset, what is it?

[baroquecello]

Recently I had a conversation with a fellow cellist and the Topic of neck reset came up. It turmed out, the other Player had a very different understanding of what the famed "new York neck reset" (I'm not even sure that is the way to call it correctly.) is, than I did. So I'm hoping to improve my undestanding of it. Can anyone comment on what this entails and why it is done, especially on Cellos (but info on violins is great too!). Thank you!

[mendicus]

Is that it? https://trianglestrings.com/raisingtheprojection/

[nathan slobodkin]

The "New York neck set" means loosening the top of the fiddle usually from the upper corners all the way around including the upper block area then pushing  the neck backward which increases the pitch and raises the FB height at the bridge end . A shim is put in between the neck root and the mortised area of the top where the neck goes in and then the top is reglued holding the neck in it's new position. The top edge gets smaller in the upper bouts so this can only be done if the edge margin is large enough to allow for solid regluing. This is also referred to as raising the pitch.

[jacobsaunders]

I’ve always wondered what this has to do with New York, is that somewhere dangerous where you are in danger of having your neck slit open?

[nathan slobodkin]

4 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I’ve always wondered what this has to do with New York, is that somewhere dangerous where you are in danger of having your neck slit open?

I think Rene Morel kind of took credit for making this an accepted practice although I am sure it was used in other places.

[PASEWICZ]

29 minutes ago, mendicus said:

Is that it? https://trianglestrings.com/raisingtheprojection/

Yes.

[sospiri]

36 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said:

The "New York neck set" means loosening the top of the fiddle usually from the upper corners all the way around including the upper block area then pushing  the neck backward which increases the pitch and raises the FB height at the bridge end . A shim is put in between the neck root and the mortised area of the top where the neck goes in and then the top is reglued holding the neck in it's new position. The top edge gets smaller in the upper bouts so this can only be done if the edge margin is large enough to allow for solid regluing. This is also referred to as raising the pitch.

Nathan, what is too low and what is too high in projection in your opinion?

[GeorgeH]

Sounds like this would lead to New York button grafts.

[Thomas Coleman]

29 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Sounds like this would lead to New York button grafts.

It doesn't though.

[PASEWICZ]

1 minute ago, Thomas Coleman said:

It doesn't though.

Nope.

[Thomas Coleman]

I think you're agreeing, right Jerry?

 

[PASEWICZ]

Just now, Thomas Coleman said:

I think you're agreeing, right Jerry?

 

Yes sir.  I have never seen that happen.

[GeorgeH]

28 minutes ago, Thomas Coleman said:

It doesn't though.

Good to know. Still, it is curious to me how many violins have had broken buttons repaired without any other visible signs of trauma.

Are the shims visible after a "New York neck set?" 

[Brad Dorsey]

Yes, the shim is visible if you look under the fingerboard.

[PASEWICZ]

49 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Good to know. Still, it is curious to me how many violins have had broken buttons repaired without any other visible signs of trauma.

Unfortunately necks are not always set as well as they could be.  Counting on the button to hold the neck in, and being slipshod with the set under that justification, I suspect is the reason for most broken buttons.  Also, for the button to break off during a raise projection, the neck would have to be loose from the block, which is also a problem with the neck set.  Obviously in that situation the neck would need to be re-set.

 

 

[Philip Perret]

2 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Good to know. Still, it is curious to me how many violins have had broken buttons repaired without any other visible signs of trauma.

Are the shims visible after a "New York neck set?" 

See topic "Bellosio Decapitation".  Happens not too infrequently, and as Jerry said; "necks are not always set as well as they could be."  I've personally never seen a broken button that could be directly traced to raising the neck angle this way.

[GeorgeH]

Thanks, @Jerry Pasewicz and @Philip Perret

[Andrew Victor]

Ifshin Violins did a New York neck reset for me 14 years ago after I bought a new cello from them. First they lowered the bridge* for me before I first took it home. The next week they lowered it a bit more. The following week, when I requested further lowering they refused and did the neck reset while I wandered around Berkeley for a few hours and had lunch before taking it home again. It has worked out fine for me even though it still has higher "action" than either of my other cellos.

* I was used to a lower bridge.

[Evan Smith]

new york neck reset, what is it?

 

 

[Bill Merkel]

The guy in the red shirt is as good as dead.  No way to get out of that if the other guy's any good.

[Nick Allen]

29 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

The guy in the red shirt is as good as dead.  No way to get out of that if the other guy's any good.

Unless the guy in red has a knife with which to murder the guy choking him. Saw a guy get stabbed in the face the other day during a fist fight. Anything can happen in the streets, just like anything can happen in lutherie lol. 

[Bill Merkel]

Ha ha,  well, he better get to stabbin because he doesn't have long...

[Violadamore]

54 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

The guy in the red shirt is as good as dead.  No way to get out of that if the other guy's any good.

"...........Sorry I'm late, there was some unpleasantness on the subway.  Fellow committed suicide with a rattail comb, but nobody saw anything.  Probably drugs.  Thank you soooo much for inviting me, I just love the opera, especially Tosca...." 

[Bill Merkel]

If nobody saw it, at least it can't be repeated.

[GeorgeH]

This thread deteriorated rapidly.