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Shunyata

Tone Engineering

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2 hours ago, Shunyata said:

I can see that engineers are held in the same regard as viola players on Maestronet.

I'm an engineer too so I just naturally drifted into viola making without thinking about it much.

That's the nice thing about viola making--you don't have to think much.

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3 hours ago, Shunyata said:

I can see that engineers are held in the same regard as viola players on Maestronet.

The good thing about viola players is that they buy violas!!! What about the photos of your violin?

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On 4/7/2019 at 3:57 PM, Violadamore said:

 

In addition to carefully considering the responses you've gotten, I recommend sampling the vast literature on MN relating to "The Secret", followed by reading Goethe's Faust, and Mary Shelly's Frankenstein, to gain some inkling of the abyss you are teetering on the brink of.  :lol:

I think Sterne's Tristram Shandy should be added to the list of essential reading. 

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1 hour ago, phutatorius said:

I think Sterne's Tristram Shandy should be added to the list of essential reading. 

Perhaps for a better understanding of the method in which MN threads are constructed?  :ph34r::lol:

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1 hour ago, Michael Jennings said:

As long as we all stay well clear of loose window sashes........ just a suggestion.

Hi All - that's reasonably safe if you use the viola to prop them open.

cheers edi

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1 hour ago, Michael Jennings said:

As long as we all stay well clear of loose window sashes........ just a suggestion.

coffeescreen.gif.2fb6d6f97bb15a97f1e53c2580d06a10.gif  Out of all the incidents available, that one gets cited.  Somehow, I'm not surprised, except at who did it.  ;)

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6 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Perhaps for a better understanding of the method in which MN threads are constructed?  :ph34r::lol:

Hi VDA

Mmm - MN threads are constructed??? They remind me more of randomly writhing wriggles - imagine living spaghetti.

cheers edi

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On 4/9/2019 at 12:33 AM, Michael Jennings said:

As long as we all stay well clear of loose window sashes........ just a suggestion.

Those are only dangerous when someone has removed the lead counterweights to help balance cheap bows. 

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On 4/9/2019 at 2:19 AM, Violadamore said:

coffeescreen.gif.2fb6d6f97bb15a97f1e53c2580d06a10.gif  Out of all the incidents available, that one gets cited.  Somehow, I'm not surprised, except at who did it.  ;)

It's just about the only plot point most can figure out, much less remember. But it's Uncle Toby's endless reconstruction of the siege of Namur (is that right?) that's the most like MN threads. It is Uncle Toby, isn't it?

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46 minutes ago, Tom O said:

It's just about the only plot point most can figure out, much less remember. But it's Uncle Toby's endless reconstruction of the siege of Namur (is that right?) that's the most like MN threads. It is Uncle Toby, isn't it?

Well, it was sort of etched on his brain, you might say.  :ph34r:  IMHO, the whole novel rambles around like an MN thread. [Plays half a dozen bars of Lilliburlero. ;)]

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4 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Well, it was sort of etched on his brain, you might say.  :ph34r:  IMHO, the whole novel rambles around like an MN thread. [Plays half a dozen bars of Lilliburlero. ;)]

Well, Sterne did provide us with his plot outlines, here and there;  So, yes, there is a sort of resemblance to an MN thread.

IMGP2607.JPG

IMGP2608.JPG

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On 4/8/2019 at 1:55 PM, Shunyata said:

I can see that engineers are held in the same regard as viola players on Maestronet.

Pretty much!   It's sort of the wrong tool for the job.   

Engineers seem to go in thinking they have a few tools and know a few things. "I aught to be able to crack this nut."   We've watched the trajectory unfold many times on this forum.

In a way, a violin isn't a standard invention.  It's more something that evolved as a traditional and conservative practice of design and build methods among families of Northern Italian makers.   

And it's hard to pin down the target goals in any simple way.  Is it simply suppose to be loud, projecting, sweet, biting, brilliant, warm?   In a way, the final arbiter of success is player acceptance. And which players?  A beginner might want something that almost plays itself.  An expert might want something that will do anything they ask.  Do fiddlers love it?  Do classical soloists love it.  Or do players only want it as sub for bad weather outdoor events?

Think of wines, cheeses, and Grandma's favorite recipes that go back generations.  How do you make a great cookie?  Not by engineering.  But if your Grandma doea make a great cookie, you can use engineering to make a mass production process that makes a consistent and pretty good imitation of her great cookies.

Lots of ways people go at this.

Hope you have fun!

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2 hours ago, David Beard said:

And it's hard to pin down the target goals in any simple way.  Is it simply suppose to be loud, projecting, sweet, biting, brilliant, warm?   In a way, the final arbiter of success is player acceptance. And which players?  A beginner might want something that almost plays itself.  An expert might want something that will do anything they ask.  Do fiddlers love it?  Do classical soloists love it.  Or do players only want it as sub for bad weather outdoor events?

Violins can't be engineered.  One of the few things almost universally agreed on is the use of wood for the body and neck, spruce for the top, and (in an overwhelming majority of cases) maple for the rest (except linings and blocks.....).  Due to variations in wood structure and dynamic behavior, it is impossible to duplicate prior art by simply following a blueprint and materials list compiled by disassembly and examination. 

Another common approach to reverse engineering, filling a "black box" by duplicating an observed and meticulously recorded output (in this case an audio waveform [Note 1][Note 2]), is denied to us by the utter lack of consensus in the violin community as to what the standard should be.  You can't simply download an "ISO Standard Violin Signature", and tweak to match it, because that standard does not, and IMHO, never will, exist, due to nontechnical considerations. :unsure:

Note 1.  Leaving the waveform uncontrolled, and producing a "Violin Identification and Quality Rating" box by application of Radar Warning Receiver/Threat Warning Receiver, and Acoustic Signature Analysis technology to the violin output waveform, eliminating the "man-in-the-loop", might be technically feasible, but IMHO, would founder on the same issues of cost, funding, and politics which prevent creation of a standard.  :ph34r:

Note 2.  Filling the black box with a digital or analog synthesizer isn't an option.  It would defeat the purpose, which is to predictably mass produce exquisite-sounding and attractive-looking wooden violins to be played in one of the usual ways.  Nobody in the business would agree on whether you nailed the sound exactly, anyway, and, if they ever did, more disagreements would break out over transducer and amplifier design. :lol:

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I dont believe in the same naive approach that you dont believe in.  However, violin making is not artistic whimsy - you will find no Picasso, Dali, or Magrite of instrument making. 

I have yet to meet a skilled craftsman who doesn't apply engineering problem solving and principles to his work. Any skilled maker can describe his aims and evaluations during the process, even if his methods require creativity and judgement. 

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31 minutes ago, Shunyata said:

I...........However, violin making is not artistic whimsy - you will find no Picasso, Dali, or Magrite of instrument making.

To name no names, I could readily point out a few on MN, and several more whose dangerous visions may be found displayed elsewhere on the internet, but the violin playing public is seldom interested, and the market usually isn't very kind to violin innovators.  The attitude of most beholders seems to resemble that of Justice Potter Stewart's decision in Jacobellis v. Ohio, 378 U.S. 184 (1964), if one replaces the words "hard-core pornography" with "fine violin", and "motion picture" with "VSO", thus: 

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["fine violin"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the VSO involved in this case is not that."  :lol:

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Shunyata: I just received a note from Metropolitan Music  and they are offering Larson violin strings and there is an extra free A string in the set. The string co. is experimenting on the A string and is giving a second A string with different tone qualities. You may be interested in this. 

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After it turned Shandy-esque, I told my wife about this thread. She said:  "Let's see:  detail-obsessive wood nuts, cook-your-own-varnish loonies, and literary jokesters--congrats! You've found your people." "Not true!" I says. "It's literary punsters!"

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