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Rimino

Joining wood, wood planes

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Hello everyone,

i am looking for a tool to plane the edge of the wood for top and back to join them.  Has anyone done this countless times with a plane perfectly and which plane do you use?

(I got lost and frustrated in the woodworking forums and lost confidence in them)

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A No.5 plane works well for me.  Lie-Nielsen is the best but costs dearly.  On the cheap side, Wood River is well made and will do an adequate job.  A vintage Stanley is your best value!

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19 minutes ago, Shunyata said:

A No.5 plane works well for me.  Lie-Nielsen is the best but costs dearly.  On the cheap side, Wood River is well made and will do an adequate job.  A vintage Stanley is your best value!

Wouldn't that highly depend on how much time and money it takes to bring that vintage Stanley (or Bailey) up to speed?

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38 minutes ago, Shunyata said:

A No.5 plane works well for me.  Lie-Nielsen is the best but costs dearly.  On the cheap side, Wood River is well made and will do an adequate job.  A vintage Stanley is your best value!

I used a #8 from the teens for a long time. I also had/have old Stanley bench and block planes. The old#8 was a bit cantankerous and had been flattened and used enough that it was a bit flexy, but worked quite well once you understood it's quirks. The Lie-Nielsen has no quirks, doesn't flex for a person of my size (Now Burgess...) and is always rock solid. The blade is great. With the old Stanley you really probably need a new blade. The old SW Blades were great steel, but they were also thin. That thick blade in the LN Jointer doesn't chatter.

I guess it depends upon your definition of value. What is your time worth?  I recent met a young woman who is a graduate of the College of the Redwoods woodworking school(the Krenov School). She mentioned that she had come to see that there were 2 types of woodworkers: Those who like to make things, and those who like to make jigs! I've spent enough time restoring tools and making jigs to properly flatten and tweak my planes. At $425, it is still a deal and all that you need is to not drop it and keep it sharp.

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15 minutes ago, Thomas Coleman said:

Veritas # 5.  I have used it many times to edge joint wood.

Some of my colleagues, whose opinions and work I very much admire, have been quite happy with Veritas planes.

I haven't spent enough personal time with either Veritas or Wood River planes to be able to offer meaningful comparisons with the Lie Neilsen.

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2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

The Lie-Nielesen is the best I have run across, so far

If you are only joining 17” boards is the #7 the best?  If so, is the Grizzley jointer plane no 7 22” good?

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-22-Smoothing-Plane/H8841   I’m on a budget because I’m no where near making money yet but I DO want to do the job right but without exasperating myself doing the work.  I talked to Grizzley tech support and an older man who collects old planes said their jointer plane will do the job as well as the Wood River because Grizzley has way more customers and can provide better prices at same quality.  Is this really true?

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23 minutes ago, Rimino said:

If you are only joining 17” boards is the #7 the best?

is the Grizzley jointer plane 22” good ?https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-22-Smoothing-Plane/H8841   I’m on a budget because I’m no where near making money yet but I DO want to do the job right but without exasperating myself doing the work.  I talked to Grizzley tech support and an older man who collects old planes said their jointer plane will do the job as well as the Wood River because Grizzley has way more customers and can provide better prices at same quality.  Is this really true?

I don't know. Going only from the photo, my guess would be that the Grizzly has too thin a blade and chipbreaker (too much flex) to work ideally.

But if it really has a flat sole (as claimed) when  the blade is clamped in place, and also well-distributed blade support, it might work as well as the Bailey which I found satisfactory for many decades.

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47 minutes ago, JohnCockburn said:

A number 6 is more than big enough for violin

 

45 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

But if it really has a flat sole

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Grizzly-H7568-22-Smoothing-Plane-with-Serrated-Sole/145531206

will the serrated sole work as well?  If so I’m thinking down the road it will be less work to flatten the sole.

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I have a like-new Wood River #7 if anyone close to central Indiana would like to try it or use it. I really wanted a #8, and it would have been better for my project, but I just couldn't justify the extra expense considered that I might never use it again.

 

PS: I also have a #4 and a low-angle block plane, too. Would love to have the jack plane, but cannot justify that. Maybe when my wife hits me the lottery! ;)

Edited by caerolle
add more info

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I picked up a 22" Millers Falls jointer plane at a swap meet some years ago.  The bed was warped and twisted so much as to be useless for making joints, and after hours and hours of trying to mill and scrape it into shape, I gave up and got a L-N #62 low-angle jack plane.  It's smaller, but big enough, and for sure flat.

If the cheaper plane isn't dead-flat and rigid enough, it's not going to work for making joints.

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32 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said:

And of course your champion Luddite uses an Ulmia long jointing plane made of wood. I spent an hour tuning this up with a scraper 32 years ago and haven't touched it since except to sharpen the blade occasionally.

How long is long?  Is this what you use for your celli?

-Jim

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2 hours ago, Jim Bress said:

How long is long?  Is this what you use for your celli?

-Jim

600 mm. I hold it upside down in the bench vise and shoot the joint in one pass.

For cellos I rough them straight then use a record 9  1/2 with a very slightly convex blade and plane a slight catenaric hollow lengthwise and a much slighter hollow  across. I put one end of the half plate in the vise rest the other end on a stool and put the second piece on top so I can feel for any wind in the joint and when it feels right and I can just barely see the shine of a floodlight held behind the joint I clamp the two halves together with one finger tightened bar clamp in the center. Then I use a strong light to check both sides of the joint and when it looks perfect I glue using three bar clamps tightening the middle one first before putting on the others. "Hundreds made and none have failed".

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There are many good planes available. I used a Stanley No 7 for years and then I bought a Lie Neilson. Both are fantastic. Probably like the Lie Neilson more  though.( the Lie Neilson is about a thousand bucks... but it is really worth it if you are serious about good planes) I also made my own wooden plane which is about 2 and a half feet long. But I think the most important issue when joining the top and back plates is to do it in the winter months when the humidity is low. I pulled my hair out numerous times over this and no matter how carefully I used my planes it was the humidity that mattered most. High humidity .... and you can not get a good join. And this join is THE most crucial join in a violin. I also have come to the conclusion that when applying glue , dont have it too thick  but also only apply it on one side .  Hide glue can have the problem of gelling and in a crucial joint like the centre joint if it gells you just cant get a good join. And you must work fast and confidently. Slide the other half on to the the first piece and you will feel it grab, and then leave it alone for several hours. Look closely at it with a magnifier and if you are not satisfied ... cut it open and do it again. Will.

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19 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

600 mm. I hold it upside down in the bench vise and shoot the joint in one pass.

For cellos I rough them straight then use a record 9  1/2 with a very slightly convex blade and plane a slight catenaric hollow lengthwise and a much slighter hollow  across. I put one end of the half plate in the vise rest the other end on a stool and put the second piece on top so I can feel for any wind in the joint and when it feels right and I can just barely see the shine of a floodlight held behind the joint I clamp the two halves together with one finger tightened bar clamp in the center. Then I use a strong light to check both sides of the joint and when it looks perfect I glue using three bar clamps tightening the middle one first before putting on the others. "Hundreds made and none have failed".

Thanks Nate.  Great and detailed info as usual.

-Jim

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