Varnish Temperature


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6 hours ago, lpr5184 said:

It did for me,... but I use the same type of oil and resin now

Great, I really appreciate all your help, thanks a lot.  I just use cold pressed linseed oil and rosin.  I always safely cook outside and have had the oil pop and snap before.  I’ll do all this and hopefully make nice varnish.

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On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 3:13 AM, Rimino said:

Great, I really appreciate all your help, thanks a lot.  I just use cold pressed linseed oil and rosin.  I always safely cook outside and have had the oil pop and snap before.  I’ll do all this and hopefully make nice varnish.

I don't know if I helped but please follow up and continue to experiment and you will make good varnish.

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21 hours ago, lpr5184 said:

I don't know if I helped but please follow up and continue to experiment and you will make good varnish.

I will follow up.  I’m going to make some this week and I’ll let you know.  I’m going to prepare the rosin this time and heat it to 260c along with the rest of the steps talked about here.

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1 hour ago, Rimino said:

I will follow up.  I’m going to make some this week and I’ll let you know.  I’m going to prepare the rosin this time and heat it to 260c along with the rest of the steps talked about here.

Are you going to add mastic? I do add it at the end of the cook.

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9 hours ago, lpr5184 said:

Are you going to add mastic? I do add it at the end of the cook.

I didn’t think of that, I don’t mean to tire everyone, I will if I can’t get anything els to work but I think I’m going to add Venice turpentine.

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I used to follow Tad Spurgeon's washing method. What a mess. So I switched to Varnish Maker's Linseed oil sold by Woodfinishing Enterprises. It is clean and works like the proverbial charm. 

I squirt a few grams of lime water paste into the hot oil and hot rosin to reduce acidity that attacks most pigments. I posted photos somewhere doing this.

I do not use mastic, but someday I just might do it. So far I have seen no need for it, but I like to experiment. Remember that it burns above 100 C. 

As for the pill, I just shoot for 2 or 3 inches. It's usually one thread. 

The only time I have seen bubbles pop up while brushing was due to cold turpentine thinner. Slightly warmed varnish helps to eliminate volatiles..  I think dirty brushes can be another source. I clean my brushes thoroughly first with turpentine, then wash religiously with Ivory (pure) soap. Smell the brushes for remnants of varnish. The brushes must also be completely dried before using. Another test for clean brushes is to flick the bristles in bright sunlight to see whether any dust flies away.  I store the brushes in a large closed jar. As my high school chemistry teacher taught: Cleanliness is next to godliness. 

Be patient and expect setbacks. It's a learning process.

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3 hours ago, Michael_Molnar said:

I used to follow Tad Spurgeon's washing method. What a mess. So I switched to Varnish Maker's Linseed oil sold by Woodfinishing Enterprises. It is clean and works like the proverbial charm. 

It says the oil is refined to removed the break but doesn't say how.  I'd rather know how the oil was refined but if you find it works then $45.00 a gallon is a steal. Does this oil contain driers? Kremer also sells a varnish makers oil. I tried it and had bad results. I see they are no longer selling it.

https://woodfinishingenterprises.com/shop/oils/varnish-makers-linseed-oil/

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3 hours ago, Michael_Molnar said:

Slightly warmed varnish helps to eliminate volatiles

 

3 hours ago, Michael_Molnar said:

So I switched to Varnish Maker's Linseed oil

I’ll try warming the varnish when I apply it, and if I have to I’ll buy this varnish makers oil.

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6 minutes ago, Rimino said:

I’ll try warming the varnish when I apply it, and if I have to I’ll buy this varnish makers oil.

If the Wood Finishing varnish makers oil works I would recommend that you use it. It will save you time and expense. Salt, sand and water washing is messy, time consuming hard work but it gives the results I'm after. To each his own.

 

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1 hour ago, lpr5184 said:

It says the oil is refined to removed the break but doesn't say how.  I'd rather know how the oil was refined but if you find it works then $45.00 a gallon is a steal. Does this oil contain driers? Kremer also sells a varnish makers oil. I tried it and had bad results. I see they are no longer selling it.

https://woodfinishingenterprises.com/shop/oils/varnish-makers-linseed-oil/

No driers, although calcium in lime is a weak drier

i order one or two quarts at time.

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50 minutes ago, Michael_Molnar said:

No driers, although calcium in lime is a weak drier

i order one or two quarts at time.

I assume it's modern refined like other artist's linseed oil? Thanks for the info, I may try it.

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On 3/16/2019 at 10:42 PM, lpr5184 said:

please follow up

 

 

On 3/18/2019 at 9:13 AM, Michael_Molnar said:

Be patient and expect setbacks. It's a learning process

Thanks everyone for all this help.I tried Venetian turpentine but it produced bubbles too when applied.  I will try the varnishmakers oil from Wood Finishing Enterprises and then Mastic.  Is it ok to bring up this same thread when I try these, or a new thread?

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42 minutes ago, Rimino said:

 

 

Thanks everyone for all this help.I tried Venetian turpentine but it produced bubbles too when applied.  I will try the varnishmakers oil from Wood Finishing Enterprises and then Mastic.  Is it ok to bring up this same thread when I try these, or a new thread?

Good luck and post on this thread.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello everyone, I bought varnish makers linseed oil from Wood Finishing Enterprises and Grumbacher’s artists’ turpentine.  I made 3 parts Colophony to three parts oil and when it cooled a little I added 1 part turpentine.  Cooked up to 290c till it stringed a couple cm.  This produced the following results without lake and with lake:

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A7C3275E-86CB-45F8-AB94-DEDE7B3880D1.thumb.jpeg.904a6d72517f48e28d050b5743d0ff1b.jpeg

The second set of photos, without and with lake, are varnish samples made from Roger Hargrave’s recipe with mastic and made exactly according to his instructions: 

49B2F200-AE3C-4B5E-A4DD-42DB045D3689.thumb.jpeg.08d2be6d277138f00ade16f4faf0fce3.jpeg

6CF454AE-A577-46D3-84B2-42869482A01F.thumb.jpeg.d51e9430a9051dc5609ddf45585b9c4f.jpeg

The varnish was applied by hand and Hargrave’s recipe was somewhat runny.  Bubbles formed in both varnishes.  The first varnish mixed far better with lake.

 

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Just out of curiosity , does anyone sell fresh washed linseed oil for varnish making? It seems folks would pay for it. 

It, like many things in varnish is confusing, boiled linseed oil, cold pressed linseed oil, washed cold pressed linseed oil....all a different animal...

It sure would be nice if someone put it in a bottle that had arrows pointing to it..."Hey, this is the stuff to make varnish with, pre washed and ready to go" 

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Thanks for following up Rimino. Bubbles?... Did you let the varnish settle for a day before using. Rapid stirring can produce bubbles. They usually go away once the varnish settles for a day or two.

I'm sorry but I have no idea why you are getting bubbles.

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Rimino, are you positive those are gas bubbles? (I can't tell from the photos...  would need to move the sample around in the light.) When dry, can you collapse the raised portions with pressure, like from using the side of a pin?

Without knowing more, my first suspect is dirt contamination, which can show up really badly in self-leveling oil varnishes. Did you filter the varnish through something fairly fine like a coffee filter before applying it?

I blow out my brushes with compressed air, blow off my clothing with compressed air, wear a plastic shower cap, blow out my dedicated varnishing room (with a filtered air supply) with compressed air,  and still get some "nits". They can be almost impossible to eliminate entirely.

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39 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Are you positive those are gas bubbles?

The bubbles are not present in the jar.  They develop upon the agitation of the varnish as I apply it with my bare hand, instantly; the more I smear the varnish, the more bubbles are created.

 

42 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

When dry, can you collapse the raised portions

The bubbles, upon drying, seem to fill with gel and some “pop” and leave no evidence they were there except leaving the surface rough.

 

46 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

my first suspect is dirt contamination

Immediately after I apply it and I look at it under a magnifying glass, the imperfections in the varnish are positively scattered very tiny bubbles and no dirt.

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14 minutes ago, Michael_Molnar said:

Bubbles mean that something is turning into a vapor. Solvents do this when added cold to varnish.

Another bubble source is a dirty brush.

A big source of dust particles is a paper towel.

It seems more to me that the bubbles are only coming from agitation of the varnish the same as when water is agitated and bubbles are created since the bubbles immediately form after I apply it by hand (no bubbles are in the jar) and even more are created the more I smear the varnish.  My hand is perfectly clean and so is the glass plate on which I apply the varnish.

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51 minutes ago, Rimino said:

The bubbles, upon drying, seem to fill with gel and some “pop” and leave no evidence they were there except leaving the surface rough.

Immediately after I apply it and I look at it under a magnifying glass, the imperfections in the varnish are positively scattered very tiny bubbles and no dirt.

Those which "fill with gel" were probably never gas bubbles.

Particulates in a varnish film can't necessarily be seen, especially if they are roughly the same refractive index as the varnish. And a very tiny particle can result in a much bigger nit.

Like Mike mentioned, sheddings from paper towels can be a major offender. They can become completely transparent in a varnish with a similar refractive index to that of wood fiber. Even drying your hands with a newish cotton towel can contaminate your hands enough with lint to create a problem, if you are smearing the varnish with your hands. There's also the possibility of contaminating the varnish with skin dander. We're shedding it all the time.

These are just some things I've experienced myself, and may or may not be related to your issues.

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