Yellows

[JohnCockburn]

4 minutes ago, Michael_Molnar said:

Are you asking about grounds or varnishes? Early on, he used umber as a ground just like Amati. Then, he switched to an organic plant, I believe. I am traveling and don't have my notes about varnish pigments.

where does this info come from, Mike?

 

[Michael_Molnar]

1 hour ago, JohnCockburn said:

where does this info come from, Mike?

 

Hi John,

As I said, I am traveling in Patagonia and must rely on memory. This is my interpretation and synthesis of Brigitte Brandmair's publications following and including the B&G book.  I need to write this up some day.

[sospiri]

18 hours ago, Michael_Molnar said:

Are you asking about grounds or varnishes? Early on, he used umber as a ground just like Amati. Then, he switched to an organic plant, I believe. I am traveling and don't have my notes about varnish pigments.

Either. Any information about whether he used yellows or not thanks?

[Michael_Molnar]

4 hours ago, sospiri said:

Either. Any information about whether he used yellows or not thanks?

My interpretation of the literature along with input from colleagues:

The ground was often red-side yellow that faded to a chestnut brown if it wasn't prepared correctly. The colored top-coat varnish has various red lakes along with blue-green, and black pigments. The colored varnish has a red cast whose origin is debatable. I don't recall whether any yellow pigments were detected, but most likely not. However, the varnish probably yellowed with age.

Keep in mind that Strad had a system (4 layers) but its constituent ingredients varied which created a lot of confusion and disagreement among researchers and makers. The problem is complicated by ageing processes. The colors we see are muted and faded.

[sospiri]

18 hours ago, Michael_Molnar said:

My interpretation of the literature along with input from colleagues:

The ground was often red-side yellow that faded to a chestnut brown if it wasn't prepared correctly. The colored top-coat varnish has various red lakes along with blue-green, and black pigments. The colored varnish has a red cast whose origin is debatable. I don't recall whether any yellow pigments were detected, but most likely not. However, the varnish probably yellowed with age.

Keep in mind that Strad had a system (4 layers) but its constituent ingredients varied which created a lot of confusion and disagreement among researchers and makers. The problem is complicated by ageing processes. The colors we see are muted and faded.

I suppose this gives his instruments and those of other makers of old a patina that just can't be matched (but it's fun to try) and contributes to some of the mystique we project onto them?

[Matthew Noykos]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:00 AM, finnfinnviolin said:

Thanks for getting in touch Matthew!

I, and im sure others would love to see those samples 

Sorry I’m later than I said on this.  The shop got super busy this week.  The stuff on the tiles are the OldWood alcohol colors in alphabetical order.  The tile with the duct tape residue is the one that has been sitting on my car dash for 5 months.  The other has been in a drawer for the same amount of time.  I’m putting it back in the car to see how it continues to develop under sunlight.  

The other 2 pictures are the orasol sprinkled onto white paper and dissolved with a couple drops of alcohol.  I labeled them by the code that they sell them.  The outside ones turn more orange (as you can see) when you layer more on.  Very thin amounts are more yellow.  It’s hard to tell the hues in the photo but the one on the right has more brown in it and the left is a little more vibrant.  The middle yellow pretty much stays that color even as it is layered.  

[CSchabbon]

My favorite pigments for retouch were the Cinquasia Pigments from Kremer.

Here the link to the red:

https://shop.kremerpigments.com/en/pigments/pigments-of-modern-age/organic-pigments/4810/quinacridone-gold-red-gold-po-48

Unfortunately they don't have the Cinquasia Gold (Gold-braungold? PO49?) anymore, that was my favorite yellow. The Cinqusia Gold-rotgold is a perfectly pure red. Those pigments were so fine,  no grinding needed and perfect transparency.

I still have two jars of W&N Indian Yellow left, but I always thought it to be too opaque. It will probably still sit in my pigment box once I am dead.

The Orasol dyes are and the Hammerl "Farbextrakte" are the same thing btw.. I have used them with mixed success. I stopped using them completely. All except one of them really change color under whitish fluorescent light (the red becomes invisible somehow), also the tend to mess up the flow of the varnish when brushing.

It's a pity all those nice pigments get discontinued, I think those big chemical companies  (BASF probably) make a batch every few decades and once exhausted that's it. 

I would and will look into Quinacridone pigments. I think that's the way to go.

Also, Artemis makes excellent lake pigments. Probably the best,  they just have so much experience. They do need a lot of grinding though. Here the link:

https://www.artemis-pflanzenfarben.de/index.php?ccPath=11

 

[joerobson]

On 3/13/2019 at 7:57 PM, Michael_Molnar said:

Hi John,

As I said, I am traveling in Patagonia and must rely on memory. This is my interpretation and synthesis of Brigitte Brandmair's publications following and including the B&G book.  I need to write this up some day.

Patagonia eh!  How's the beef?

[Michael_Molnar]

18 hours ago, joerobson said:

Patagonia eh!  How's the beef?

I liked it, but down there they don't season their food like we do.

[Zen Master]

Hello

I am also exploring some yellow retouch pigments at the moment.   It seems like Cadmium Yellow (PY37, 77199) stands out from the list in Weisshaar and seems to check out in Mayer, Doerner, and Wehlte.  Kremer has a range of Cadmium Yellows.  According to Doerner it should not come in contact with Lime.

Tartrazine Lake (PY100, Yellow #5) is available HERE as a cosmetic pigment. Anyone know if this would have the same supplier as artist pigments?    I may give them a call.

[luthier]

What does one use as a solvent with Tartrazine Lake? Alcohol?