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Landolfi

Poggi vs Zygmuntowicz

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4 hours ago, Landolfi said:

I am leaning Poggi based on the feedback i have so far.   I think Poggi's market has matured and there's a group of faithful followers.    Zyg still makes violins and his body of work hasn't been completed yet.   But i think the potential is definitely there.   The only small concern i have is that he is American, and perhaps there may be some collectors who want to play or collect Italian fiddles only, and may overlook his violins.

"When Smith-Barney talks, people listen!"

Pay attention to Manfio.

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2 hours ago, Landolfi said:

...but i think tonal quality plays the most important role on the profitability of the investment.  One would think that the better sound-producing fiddle would offer the best chance to appreciate in value over time.  

One might think that, but one would have to be oblivious to reality.  I mean, Landolfi, you've been here awhile.  You ask for advice, but you ignore it.  Tonal quality plays the LEAST IMPORTANT role in determining the value of the investment.  This "don't confuse me with the facts--my mind's made up" shtick you've got going is irritating.

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2 hours ago, Landolfi said:

@Manfio.   Obviously, there are many factors to consider here, but i think tonal quality plays the most important role on the profitability of the investment.  One would think that the better sound-producing fiddle would offer the best chance to appreciate in value over time.  

I would go for one which was owned by a famous violinist. 

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4 hours ago, palousian said:

One might think that, but one would have to be oblivious to reality.  I mean, Landolfi, you've been here awhile.  You ask for advice, but you ignore it.  Tonal quality plays the LEAST IMPORTANT role in determining the value of the investment.  This "don't confuse me with the facts--my mind's made up" shtick you've got going is irritating.

Are you saying that people would spend lots of money investing on a musical instrument based on look more than on the music it produces?   This makes no sense to me whatsoever.   

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On 2/24/2019 at 6:24 AM, MANFIO said:

If I were a professional musician I would get the one that is easier to play and sounds better, and I would include other makers (dead and alive) in the basket too.

If I were a violin collector or dealer I would take the Poggi.

I totally agree with your first point, but i am not clear on your second point about taking Poggi over Zyg if one is a collector or dealer.   Why do you think dealers would get Poggi?   Is it because he has passed away?  Making better quality of violins?  More hard core followers?  Or simply because he was an Italian?  Or a combination of other reasons?

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6 hours ago, Landolfi said:

I totally agree with your first point, but i am not clear on your second point about taking Poggi over Zyg if one is a collector or dealer.   Why do you think dealers would get Poggi?   Is it because he has passed away?  Making better quality of violins?  More hard core followers?  Or simply because he was an Italian?  Or a combination of other reasons?

Because our reptilian overlords have decided that Poggi is the "next big thing"

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18 hours ago, Landolfi said:

... The only small concern i have is that he is American, and perhaps there may be some collectors who want to play or collect Italian fiddles only, and may overlook his violins.

No. That's mainly old instruments. Not modern makers.

14 hours ago, Landolfi said:

@Manfio.   Obviously, there are many factors to consider here, but i think tonal quality plays the most important role on the profitability of the investment.  One would think that the better sound-producing fiddle would offer the best chance to appreciate in value over time.  

No! Tone plays no role in investment value.

It plays a role when purchasing new, or "no name" older instruments as an actual player's tool, but not among high-priced "investment" instruments. What you are paying for is any combination of:

1. Provenance 

2. Popularity of the maker

3. Quality of materials used

4. Rarity, or perceived rarity

8 hours ago, Landolfi said:

Are you saying that people would spend lots of money investing on a musical instrument based on look more than on the music it produces?   This makes no sense to me whatsoever.   

Not the "look" per se, see above.

It doesn't have to make sense to you. Just accept that's the way it is.  Collectors of "stuff" aren't paying for something as subjective, fleeting, or ethereal as "tone".

8 hours ago, Landolfi said:

I totally agree with your first point, but i am not clear on your second point about taking Poggi over Zyg if one is a collector or dealer.   Why do you think dealers would get Poggi?   Is it because he has passed away?  Making better quality of violins?  More hard core followers?  Or simply because he was an Italian?  Or a combination of other reasons?

Yes JohnCockburn!

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14 hours ago, Landolfi said:

@Manfio.   Obviously, there are many factors to consider here, but i think tonal quality plays the most important role on the profitability of the investment.  One would think that the better sound-producing fiddle would offer the best chance to appreciate in value over time.  

That's good news as I have a violin that looks like a Poggi and sounds as good as the ones in the Youtube videos, and I only payed $20 for it !

All I need to do now is find a convincing label :lol:

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23 minutes ago, Delabo said:

That's good news as I have a violin that looks like a Poggi and sounds as good as the ones in the Youtube videos, and I only payed $20 for it !

All I need to do now is find a convincing label :lol:

you skipped the bit about "provenance".

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29 minutes ago, Herman West said:

you skipped the bit about "provenance".

I thought the whole point of these "sound is everything" debates on Maestronet is that the sound is the provenance ?

But give me a few hours and I will whip up some  convincing "provenance" certificates as you insist on it ! :lol:

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The sound of the violin will depend on how it's adjusted at any given moment...yes there are inherent qualities, but within that it can change depending on so many factors.  As a player, I know this from painful experience ;)

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10 hours ago, Landolfi said:

Are you saying that people would spend lots of money investing on a musical instrument based on look more than on the music it produces?   This makes no sense to me whatsoever.   

Sometimes they don't even look at it.  All they need is a piece of paper.  ;)

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As I try and learn how to play guitar, I'm also amusing myself exploring guitar culture which is  similar -  but different - to violin culture. I don't know if this video is helpful or confusing...but I'll put it out there.

1. These are the exact same model of guitars.

2. This model was/is an expensive guitar. It plays well because it is well made using top quality materials.

3. While the musician could tell the difference between the two, I couldn't hear a noticeable difference - typical internet sound quality issues.

4. Regardless, the €55,000 guitar does not "sound" 18x better than the €3,000 guitar.

So? What is it that the "collector" is paying for?

 

 

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19 hours ago, mmmm said:

You didn't do the Zyg any favors by placing it in a practice room.  However, that main room at Tarisio would make a half size violin sound amazing.  Having played all three of those instruments, I prefer 161, but 156 is a healthier instrument and better suited to a soloist.

161 sounds like there's more to it than the others and I like it best too.  How accurate an impression of them do the videos give?  By health, do you mean 161 is coming apart?

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17 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

161 sounds like there's more to it than the others and I like it best too.  How accurate an impression of them do the videos give?  By health, do you mean 161 is coming apart?

Not coming apart, I simply meant compare condition reports ;)

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On 2/26/2019 at 4:15 AM, Landolfi said:

I totally agree with your first point, but i am not clear on your second point about taking Poggi over Zyg if one is a collector or dealer.   Why do you think dealers would get Poggi?   Is it because he has passed away?  Making better quality of violins?  More hard core followers?  Or simply because he was an Italian?  Or a combination of other reasons?

Poggi made Poggi violins, not copies, and in general collectors will want to see the maker's personality on the violin. Poggi is a well stablished name, even when he was alive, and he continued famous after his death.

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Well, 132k vs 228k, more than twice the bids on the Poggi.

 

I guess that we have our answer, or do we just have more questions?(Like, WTF, a quarter-million for a modern Italian made in 1962?!?)

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