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lousyplayer

Install bridge or sound post first ??

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Hi all i had just search "sound post" & "bridge" & browse for like 15 pages each but cant find what i looking for so here the question ..

Let's say here a new violin with a new bridge & sound post so we should put in

A: Sound post first and then bridge & then string 

or

B: Bridge & string (pre-tune) then sound post ??

And why ?? Thanks first ^_^

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The sound post supports the top and bottom of the violin.  Think of it as a support wall.

It needs to fit properly.  It should stay in place without strings (not too tight, not too loose) under normal environmental conditions (whatever that may be).

The bridge is held in place by the strings.  The strings exert significant pressure on the bridge...which exerts pressure on the sound post...which, as mentioned, is a support structure.

So...let's be dramatic here...if you put on the bridge, and held it in place with the strings - with no sound post to support the pressure  - it could implode.

***KABOOM***

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7 minutes ago, Rue said:

The sound post supports the top and bottom of the violin.  Think of it as a support wall.

It needs to fit properly.  It should stay in place without strings (not too tight, not too loose) under normal environmental conditions (whatever that may be).

The bridge is held in place by the strings.  The strings exert significant pressure on the bridge...which exerts pressure on the sound post...which, as mentioned, is a support structure.

So...let's be dramatic here...if you put on the bridge, and held it in place with the strings - with no sound post to support the pressure  - it could implode.

***KABOOM***

Yeah this actually very logic but here come another question ...

Most people recommend to change string one at a time to avoid sound post to fall off but if sound post are put in & fit properly there then why the worry ??

Thanks

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3 minutes ago, lousyplayer said:

Yeah this actually very logic but here come another question ...

Most people recommend to change string one at a time to avoid sound post to fall off but if sound post are put in & fit properly there then why the worry ??

Thanks

Because, wood shrinks and expands.  Even a well fitting sound post might, if it happens to be very dry when you change your strings, fall over.  The violin itself will shrink as well - if it's very dry, which could lead to even more movement of the sound post.

If you change one string at a time, you are still maintaining pressure on the sound post at all times, and the chance of it falling over are much less likely.

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6 minutes ago, lousyplayer said:

Also how to know if the sound post is fit right at the middle below the bridge's foot between E & A string without the bridge there ??

That comes with practice...there's only a very small area that a sound post can be placed in.  

The bridge is obviously very moveable, you can't just hold a bridge on a violin and fit the sound post solely based on where you're holding the bridge...

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15 minutes ago, lousyplayer said:

Also how to know if the sound post is fit right at the middle below the bridge's foot between E & A string without the bridge there ??

Soundpost first.  Mark out the bridge position with china marker or some such.

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Sounds like you don't have a clue on what you are trying to do. First of all, the position of the post is behind the bridge foot. The ends also have to fit the contours and angle of the inside perfectly.

If you put the bridge and strings on first, and then set the post, the post WILL fall if the tension goes off the strings.

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5 hours ago, Rue said:

Because, wood shrinks and expands.  Even a well fitting sound post might, if it happens to be very dry when you change your strings, fall over.  The violin itself will shrink as well - if it's very dry, which could lead to even more movement of the sound post.

If you change one string at a time, you are still maintaining pressure on the sound post at all times, and the chance of it falling over are much less likely.

You have this backwards Rue. Posts get looser in higher humidity tighter in dry weather.

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As I see it, the reason to fit the post first is that the top arch might be slightly different with the post in place.  So if you do the bridge first, the feet might no longer fit as well after you put the post in.

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Guys i did know the string tension will crack the top plate if it already in tune without the sound post so no need to be panic about it.

I have to sorry for my english but i think i should try to re-ask in this way ...

How effective is this if i put on say G & E string & just make sure their pressure barely hold the bridge on the top plate & then i work out the sound post in this way so i have a solid thing there for me to measure for the sound post locate right at the middle of the bridge's foot & has the distance that i looking for vertically behind the bridge ??

Of course by doing this the first disadvantage i can think of is that i cant look through the end pin hole to see how the post is fitting .. but i dont see everyone doing this by the way.

Thanks again.

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I stick a "post-it" note onto the front with the bridge and initial soundpost position marked on it. The latter is a very useful guide to the eye. Something like chinagraph pencil could also be used to mark the positions, but I prefer the sticky note.

Your way, you're just losing the benefit of being able to look into the endpin hole for no alternative advantage.

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" but i dont see everyone doing this by the way. "

I ALWAYS look through the end pin hole on a newly set up violin. As I said before, it doesn't sound like you have a clue. Have you ever set a proper sound post? If you haven't set many, don't argue with people who have!

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38 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

What method will you use to accurately find the correct bridge position?

It's easily figured out by measurement.

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3 hours ago, JohnCockburn said:

I stick a "post-it" note onto the front with the bridge and initial soundpost position marked on it. The latter is a very useful guide to the eye. Something like chinagraph pencil could also be used to mark the positions, but I prefer the sticky note.

Your way, you're just losing the benefit of being able to look into the endpin hole for no alternative advantage.

Do you make any video or image as a tutorial about your matter ?? I have some problem to fully understand your method. Its ok if no. Thanks first

50 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

What method will you use to accurately find the correct bridge position?

" The feet of the bridge should be aligned with the interior notches of the F-holes. " Thats what i get from almost every articles for this method but then somehow some say sometime the interior notches might not in the right place so i dont know.

There are some other measurement i found like 328mm / 330mm from nut to bridge .. so not sure which one is correct. So any idea ??

By the way i must say that i am just a lorry delivery driver but i like to play guitar & violin .. & i am a very DIY person where i buy raw bridge & craft it myself, rehair my bow & i did set up sound post few times already & also i fix my car if i manage / washing machine / computer / air conditioner / water pipe & so on ... you name it.

And i do all this by online searching every available articles or youtube video so pls go easy if i get it wrong.

Thanks

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It costs around 20-30 bucks to get a sound post cut and installed around here. I’d highly recommend just taking it in ( plus it gives a a reason to check out all the new stuff in the shop;). 

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15 minutes ago, Jwillis said:

It costs around 20-30 bucks to get a sound post cut and installed around here. I’d highly recommend just taking it in ( plus it gives a a reason to check out all the new stuff in the shop;). 

Here is Malaysia. I doubt i can find any well trained & experience luthier here.

But then i must say i do enjoy the fun to learn & do it all myself

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13 minutes ago, lousyplayer said:

Here is Malaysia. I doubt i can find any well trained & experience luthier here.

But then i must say i do enjoy the fun to learn & do it all myself

Isn't that why we all started creating SOMETHING as kids before we got into the field we did? I know my first project was pretty rough.  As I'm sure my first soundpost was!

 

I recommend fitting the soundpost with the bridge laid out with marks or post it notes as everyone has suggested.  I also recommend using a dental mirror as you look through the end button hole so you can see how well the backside of the sound post fits. 

As was suggested earlier, there are issues with fitting both bridge and soundpost if it is done in the other order.

Good luck!  Use a sharp tool!

Dorian

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