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Does this label look legit( French cello)


PhilipKT
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  • 2 weeks later...

The repair label looks interesting.  There was a Lutheran pastor of that name in that part of Virginia still active in the 1950's, and the family goes back a ways.  You might go digging on genealogy sites, as well as in the public records, newspapers, etc., that they usually link to, and see what you can discover.  Good luck!

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Paul Mangenot bought the original Derazey stamps in 1928 from the Laberte firm, together with other brands. His catalogue even advertised his shop as  "Ateliers de Lutherie Didier Nicolas ainé, Honoré Derazey, Just Derazey". The cello is supposed to be from this period.

https://www.luthiers-mirecourt.com/mangenot1.htm

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22 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Paul Mangenot bought the original Derazey stamps in 1928 from the Laberte firm, together with other brands. His catalogue even advertised his shop as  "Ateliers de Lutherie Didier Nicolas ainé, Honoré Derazey, Just Derazey". The cello is supposed to be from this period.

https://www.luthiers-mirecourt.com/mangenot1.htm

That’s wonderful information, blank, thank you very much. If it weren’t for all that,” It’s all in French and I don’t speak French,” problem, it would be great.

I don’t see a Translate feature on the page. Am I missing it? Because, it’s in French?

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15 hours ago, Violadamore said:

The repair label looks interesting.  There was a Lutheran pastor of that name in that part of Virginia still active in the 1950's, and the family goes back a ways.  You might go digging on genealogy sites, as well as in the public records, newspapers, etc., that they usually link to, and see what you can discover.  Good luck!

I have not yet looked him up in my Wenberg book, but I’ll do it as soon as I get to the studio.

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26 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Paul Mangenot bought the original Derazey stamps in 1928 from the Laberte firm, together with other brands. His catalogue even advertised his shop as  "Ateliers de Lutherie Didier Nicolas ainé, Honoré Derazey, Just Derazey". The cello is supposed to be from this period.

https://www.luthiers-mirecourt.com/mangenot1.htm

It’s OK, I am using Google translate. It’s a little clumsy but I’m getting the information. Thank you very much for sharing, I really appreciate it.

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1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

I don’t see a Translate feature on the page. Am I missing it? Because, it’s in French?

They have a translation button at the home page, but for the rest it's telling "English translation coming soon"^_^ /for several years now).https://www.luthiers-mirecourt.com/e_appraisal.htm#assistance

One of my other favourite websites is Viaduct violins, they have english informations, but shorter - saying he used the brand since he succeeded Derazey in 1890, so I translated wrong - Terrier wrote that Mangenot sold all this brands to Laberte in 1928:unsure:

According to this informations the cello was made between 1890 and 1928.

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2 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I have not yet looked him up in my Wenberg book, but I’ll do it as soon as I get to the studio.

Look at these links instead:

https://www.violinist.com/discussion/thread.cfm?page=2291

https://newspaperarchive.com/bluefield-daily-telegraph-dec-15-1959-p-5/

Bluefield Daily Telegraph (Newspaper) - December 15, 1959, Bluefield, West Virginia  Fruitful Years - - - -★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ Retired Minister Creates Violins At 78, He Turns To His Second Love. His Fingers Are A Bit Stiff And Calloused, But He Is Still So Much A Master Of His Craft That His Instruments Are In Demand As Collectors Items.  By HENRY L. FREEING WHEN 50 YEARS OF service in the Lutheran ministry ended for the Rev. P. J. Bame, he turned eagerly to his second love the making of violins. It is a craft that requires endless patience and a sustaining fortitude to rise above disappoint ment if the finished product lacks that richness of tone that distinguishes the masterpiece from the fiddle. A half century of devotion to the Lord’s work was good preparation for the Rev Bame. Since his retirement to his native state of North Carolina where he lives in Salisbury, he is able to spend more time on violins. Now 78, he is besieged with pleas to put back together what careless hands, dampness and other mishaps have pulled apart and has repaired more than 7,000 violins, mostly for children. It may seem a waste of his talent to work on these cheap instruments, but the Rev. Bame's characteristic reply is, “But think how many children’s hearts I have made sing.” He has a nostalgic sympathy for these youngsters, for when he acquired his first violin he w a s still a youth and inquisitively took it apart to see how it was made. He didn't do a very good job of putting it back together again, for he had no clamps, no proper glues nor any knowledge of physics, but it sparked his interest in violins. Master Of Craft It was then he began reading about the construction and history of violins, and a whole new interest was created which eventually made him a master of the craft. Everything that goes into a fine violin must be selected with great care. The Rev. Bame takes advantage of the research of the famed Antonio Stradivarius who learned, back in the 18th Century, that maple has a fine vibratory quality as well as beauty suitable for the back and sides of the instrument. The minister discovered for himself that fine-grained Western spruce is soft but strong for the sounding board or top. He reaches out to the island of Madagascar for ebony for the fingerboards and pegs. Materials for the bow also come from far-off places: Pernambuco wood from South America and glues and hair from Russia. The fashioning of the instrument is a delicate job. The back and top are hand carved to their exact shape. The tools the Rev. Bame uses are no larger than his thumb. A clear, flat, natural lighting is necessary and fingers must be sensitive for the Fineness of the work. When callouses develop the work has to be laid aside until his fingers can again detect the slightest flaw. The side sections are softened in boiling water and clamped to shape on a brass form. When every part is complete, the instrument has to be put aside to “weather,” something that can be accomplished only by time Even the planed surface of old wood must go through the same seasoning process. Final Test After two and a half years of work comes the final test, drawing the bow across the strings. Will the tones be full and deep and beautifully resonant? If so, it is another Bame masterpiece. (His violins are already becoming collectors’ items.) If it is not, Mr. Bame starts all over again. The Rev. Bame has made 14 violins and one viola. The viola and a violin, owned by his daughters, are his only instruments that remain in the famiily. The German-born musician, Albert Michael, used to borrow the viola while he was a band director in Newport News, Va., and offered the Rev. Bame $1,000 for it, but it had been made expressly for his daughter, Mrs. W. G. Wells of Salem, Va Disclaiming any great musical  talent, the Rev. Bame says, “I play only by note, the Christian hymns, to the annoyance of my friends. And my fingers aren t right for a violinist, not long and uniform enough.'' Fritz Kreisler once showed the Rev. Bame his hands long, strong fingers that were calloused from constant practice. Oddly enough the retired minister can almost match the callouses — not from drawing music from the strings, but from making the instrument by which the Fritz  Kreislers stir music lovers.

The violin that the Violinist.com poster was hunting for was sold at auction over a year before he started looking for it.  :(  http://www.lotnut.com/app/item.html?guid=12bfc2dd-1550-4643-abeb-7594f3e1a5bb

 

 

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6 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Look at these links instead:

https://www.violinist.com/discussion/thread.cfm?page=2291

https://newspaperarchive.com/bluefield-daily-telegraph-dec-15-1959-p-5/

Bluefield Daily Telegraph (Newspaper) - December 15, 1959, Bluefield, West Virginia  Fruitful Years - - - -★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ Retired Minister Creates Violins At 78, He Turns To His Second Love. His Fingers Are A Bit Stiff And Calloused, But He Is Still So Much A Master Of His Craft That His Instruments Are In Demand As Collectors Items.  By HENRY L. FREEING WHEN 50 YEARS OF service in the Lutheran ministry ended for the Rev. P. J. Bame, he turned eagerly to his second love the making of violins. It is a craft that requires endless patience and a sustaining fortitude to rise above disappoint ment if the finished product lacks that richness of tone that distinguishes the masterpiece from the fiddle. A half century of devotion to the Lord’s work was good preparation for the Rev Bame. Since his retirement to his native state of North Carolina where he lives in Salisbury, he is able to spend more time on violins. Now 78, he is besieged with pleas to put back together what careless hands, dampness and other mishaps have pulled apart and has repaired more than 7,000 violins, mostly for children. It may seem a waste of his talent to work on these cheap instruments, but the Rev. Bame's characteristic reply is, “But think how many children’s hearts I have made sing.” He has a nostalgic sympathy for these youngsters, for when he acquired his first violin he w a s still a youth and inquisitively took it apart to see how it was made. He didn't do a very good job of putting it back together again, for he had no clamps, no proper glues nor any knowledge of physics, but it sparked his interest in violins. Master Of Craft It was then he began reading about the construction and history of violins, and a whole new interest was created which eventually made him a master of the craft. Everything that goes into a fine violin must be selected with great care. The Rev. Bame takes advantage of the research of the famed Antonio Stradivarius who learned, back in the 18th Century, that maple has a fine vibratory quality as well as beauty suitable for the back and sides of the instrument. The minister discovered for himself that fine-grained Western spruce is soft but strong for the sounding board or top. He reaches out to the island of Madagascar for ebony for the fingerboards and pegs. Materials for the bow also come from far-off places: Pernambuco wood from South America and glues and hair from Russia. The fashioning of the instrument is a delicate job. The back and top are hand carved to their exact shape. The tools the Rev. Bame uses are no larger than his thumb. A clear, flat, natural lighting is necessary and fingers must be sensitive for the Fineness of the work. When callouses develop the work has to be laid aside until his fingers can again detect the slightest flaw. The side sections are softened in boiling water and clamped to shape on a brass form. When every part is complete, the instrument has to be put aside to “weather,” something that can be accomplished only by time Even the planed surface of old wood must go through the same seasoning process. Final Test After two and a half years of work comes the final test, drawing the bow across the strings. Will the tones be full and deep and beautifully resonant? If so, it is another Bame masterpiece. (His violins are already becoming collectors’ items.) If it is not, Mr. Bame starts all over again. The Rev. Bame has made 14 violins and one viola. The viola and a violin, owned by his daughters, are his only instruments that remain in the famiily. The German-born musician, Albert Michael, used to borrow the viola while he was a band director in Newport News, Va., and offered the Rev. Bame $1,000 for it, but it had been made expressly for his daughter, Mrs. W. G. Wells of Salem, Va Disclaiming any great musical  talent, the Rev. Bame says, “I play only by note, the Christian hymns, to the annoyance of my friends. And my fingers aren t right for a violinist, not long and uniform enough.'' Fritz Kreisler once showed the Rev. Bame his hands long, strong fingers that were calloused from constant practice. Oddly enough the retired minister can almost match the callouses — not from drawing music from the strings, but from making the instrument by which the Fritz  Kreislers stir music lovers.

The violin that the Violinist.com poster was hunting for was sold at auction over a year before he started looking for it.  :(  http://www.lotnut.com/app/item.html?guid=12bfc2dd-1550-4643-abeb-7594f3e1a5bb

 

 

What a delightful article, thank you so much for sharing. I’m sure this cello is going to sell for much more than I am interested in spending on it, but I’m going to be interested in it until it does sell.

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