murrmac

What's the correct name?

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Having a bit of a senior moment ... I have forgotten the technical name by which you refer to the distance between the top of the soundboard and the underside of the fingerboard ... it's something like "offset" or "upstand" or something like that ... a quick Google search didn't help ...  memory refreshment much appreciated ... TIA. 

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6 minutes ago, murrmac said:

Having a bit of a senior moment ... I have forgotten the technical name by which you refer to the distance between the top of the soundboard and the underside of the fingerboard ... it's something like "offset" or "upstand" or something like that ... a quick Google search didn't help ...  memory refreshment much appreciated ... TIA. 

Why don't you come over here and stand while I look it up?  :ph34r::lol:

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9 minutes ago, martin swan said:

As VdA points out, the correct term is appui

:lol:

Did she point that out? I must have missed that ... and now it's getting complicated,  with two other multilingual terms up for consideration.

How about I just call it the ""neck gap" ? ....B) 

 

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A liguistically more correct translation of the German "Überstand", would be for instance "Protrusion", but nobody would know what you were talking about. Overstand sounds as if the American violin makers were a bunch of Germans trying to speak English

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

"Überstand" actually. There isn't a proper American English word for it

So, you're saying the correct word for what most people refer to as "appui" is actually "Überstand"?  No, I get it now, you're just saying that "overstand" is an inaccurate translation of the german word.

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Reason I asked was because this  Hofner President archtop has arrived in the shop, and the owner wants the glaringly visible previous hack repair of the broken neck rendered as inconspicuous as possible. 

For the life of me I couldn't  recollect the correct term for "overstand" ... thanks to Vda and everybody else for their contributions.

oyzDtu.jpg 

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41 minutes ago, mood2000 said:

Huh ???

The guitar in my pic is an archtop (sometimes called  "cello" ) guitar with a cantilevered fretboard ( or "fingerboard" if you prefer) extension.

All guitars have "heels" , but only archtop guitars have an "overstand". Flat-top guitars have the fretboard/fingerboard glued to the soundboard in almost all cases, with the exception of Dana Bourgeois guitars , and possibly some others, where the extension is secured to the soundboard by concealed bolts.

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6 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

A liguistically more correct translation of the German "Überstand", would be for instance "Protrusion", but nobody would know what you were talking about. Overstand sounds as if the American violin makers were a bunch of Germans trying to speak English

The right word in English would be "overhang", used for that in ever other context.  "Overstand" would imply height of something above its surroundings.  You'd think it would mean the height of the fingerboard or of the part of the neck that sticks out above the neck mortise.

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I used to use Rene Morels French terminology and called it Appuy. When I came to Japan and listened to the horrible pronunciation of my apprentices (especially renversement was a tongue breaker to them) I switched  to English and called it overstand. 

However thinking about it it's a bit awkward word and maybe 'neck elevation' would be better. 

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16 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

I used to use Rene Morels French terminology and called it Appuy. When I came to Japan and listened to the horrible pronunciation of my apprentices (especially renversement was a tongue breaker to them) I switched  to English and called it overstand. 

However thinking about it it's a bit awkward word and maybe 'neck elevation' would be better. 

Pay 'em back.  Practice your Japanese on them.  If you're feeling really cruel, affect Kyushu dialect.  :ph34r:

7 hours ago, martin swan said:

"Appui"

Appuy sounds like a Chappuy with his head cut off (perhaps guillotined)

What a novel thought.  Makes an excellent mnemonic for the term, as well.  Your seminal contributions to world luthiery continue apace.  B)  :lol:

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7 hours ago, martin swan said:

"Appui"

Appuy sounds like a Chappuy with his head cut off (perhaps guillotined)

Chappuy, probably not, but Léopold Renaudin was guillotined.:wacko:

and it’s “appui” not “ appuy”

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5 hours ago, christian bayon said:

Chappuy, probably not, but Léopold Renaudin was guillotined.:wacko:

and it’s “appui” not “ appuy”

My French is getting rusty. I hope there is no capital punishment on misspelling words.:)

 

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Ok... why appui??  that translates to "support" in english.

Overstand is indeed correct in all aspects... It is the height of the neck root above the top plate ( it stands proud over the plate). If it were to project to the side it would be an overhang, maybe a hangover,  and if it were to be under the plate it would be an "understand"   ... understand :)??

Cheers, Mat

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I don’t think that the contention was ever that “overstand” was incorrect, rather that it is comical badly translated German, almost on a niveau with “When do I become a sausage”

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

I don’t think that the contention was ever that “overstand” was incorrect, rather that it is comical badly translated German, almost on a niveau with “When do I become a sausage”

Actually, "uberstand" is a comically badly translated form of the English "overstand".  ;)

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