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cjankowski

Chin Rest Cork New Violin's

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Anyone have any success with applying anything to the cork on chin rests to keep the cork from sticking? Especially with new varnish.

Chalk, Wax, Ren-Wax?

Or just learn to live with it?

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  I got no answers last year when I asked the same question.  What I ended up doing was coat the cork with castor oil under the belief of that stuff being a non-drying oil this will be my best chance.  I think afterwards I swiped a thin coat of baby powder or lime - it was one or the other but castor was applied first. 

  So after reading your post here I went up and removed two Guarneri style chinrests from last years builds.  One clung to the lower plate, left post side but came off with no varnish removal.  Probably the weight of the chin/jaw doing that during playing.  Good enough but not perfect.  Then the other one - came off clean and polished back up with finger pressure only.   I used homemade oil varnish for both. 

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2 hours ago, cjankowski said:

Thanks,

I’m assuming dry bar soap? 

I use dry bar soap (Ivory), and a little bit of water so it can be painted on the cork, and let dry.

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I have used plastic film like from a zip lock bag or similar. Cut to shape then slipped between the cork and fiddle. The only outcome is that it will leave a shiny spot at the contact points. Dealing with a shiny spot is way easier than removing stuck-on cork and then retouching the varnish. 

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Something I have often done is to replace the cork with innertube rubber.  Being rather non-porous compared to cork, it doesn't seem infuse with varnish, creating a non-separable composite substance.

The other advantage is that it has a lot of friction, so the chinrest stays in place much better with low clamping pressure than by using lubricants or films on cork. Too much long-term clamping pressure can mess things up!

I once went into a recording studio with a loosly-clamped cork-padded chinrest. The studio engineer kept asking "what's that noise"? We finally figured out that it was from the chinrest moving. Evidently, I had become so accustomed to that noise that I had learned to ignore it. I tightened up the chinrest clamps to solve the problem for the time being, but it was much more clamp pressure than I would want to maintain on a semi-valuable and above violin.

Warning!: Cork tends to squash into a shape, and then stay that way, so it's very forgiving of poor fitment issues. Modern "rubbers" are less so, so a little more chinrest clamping surface shaping handiwork may be required to use it successfully.

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Hi David - from my engine rebuilding gays I have a box of unused remnants of gasket sets. Sump gaskets are made from crumbs of cork in a matrix of rubber. Best of both worlds.

cheers edi

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14 hours ago, edi malinaric said:

Hi David - from my engine rebuilding gays I have a box of unused remnants of gasket sets. Sump gaskets are made from crumbs of cork in a matrix of rubber. Best of both worlds.

cheers edi

Are you describing agglomerated cork?

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Another substitute cork material is Arco Cork which is used extensively in the band instrument repair industry. Don't ask me how I know this! lol

If any members are instrested,I'll be glad to send a small sample.

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15 hours ago, edi malinaric said:

Hi David - from my engine rebuilding gays I have a box of unused remnants of gasket sets. Sump gaskets are made from crumbs of cork in a matrix of rubber. Best of both worlds.

cheers edi

Thanks Edi. I have some of that material.

On the latest modern engines, most of the old-style gaskets have been replaced by a gasket with an integral silicone rubber raised portion, sort of like a captured O-ring, but not requiring a groove in the mating parts.

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Perfect timing!  This is the next step for my first violin build.  

i never thought about using an inner tube.  Would a rubber band do the same thing for the same reasons?

Also, how much do you shape the chinrest to fit the contour of the violin face, or do you keep the feet of the chinrest flat and allow the cork or rubber to absorbs the difference?

Thanks.

GlenV

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9 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Thanks Edi. I have some of that material.

On the latest modern engines, most of the old-style gaskets have been replaced by a gasket with an integral silicone rubber raised portion, sort of like a captured O-ring, but not requiring a groove in the mating parts.

Hi David - it always amused me - the British cars and motorcycles of the 50s/60s leaked oil like a sieve. Maybe it was a design requirement???

The Brits sold the Austin A40 and Triumph T100/110 lines to the Japanese - who re-branded them as Datsun and Kawasaki - got them to rev about 50% higher, almost doubled their output and made them oil-tight. The latter by using those all-neoprene (silicone today) gaskets. Cunning people.

https://www.atlanticgasket.com/materials/cork-rubber-material.html

I achieved oil tight performance by coating all sealing surfaces and threads with Goodyear Pliobond - made opening the engines hell but the oil stayed inside and the garage floor remained spotless.

cheers edi

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2 hours ago, edi malinaric said:

Hi David - it always amused me - the British cars and motorcycles of the 50s/60s leaked oil like a sieve. Maybe it was a design requirement???

 

I think it was. Perhaps it was a strategy to keep the dust down on gravel roads. :lol:

I had two Triumphs and a BSA.

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9 hours ago, edi malinaric said:

The Brits sold the Austin A40 and Triumph T100/110 lines to the Japanese -

Not the Austin A40, but the Austin 7, and not the Triumph T100/110, the original W series Kawas were cribbed from the BSA pre-unit twins, the A10. I'm not sure there was a commercial agreement, but the pre-war Meguro (before they were taken over by Kawasaki Heavy Industries) singles seem also to have been based on BSA twin-port singles (my dad had one)

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1 hour ago, Michael Appleman said:

Some would say the Datsun 1600/2000 "Fairlady" sportscar was cribbed from the MGB, but it actually came first!

I had a couple of those cars. Stellar in many ways. The latest cars have subjugated the driving experience to computer controls in so many ways, kinda like a violin with auto-tune and auto-phrasing, Where the heck are we headed?

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10 hours ago, David Burgess said:

I think it was. Perhaps it was a strategy to keep the dust down on gravel roads. :lol:

I had two Triumphs and a BSA.

My condolences. :-( How is it that some of us never learn?

Says a guy who owned 3 Fiats - consecutively!!!!

FIAT -  First In All Troubles! Broken crankshaft, broken half-shafts, broken clutch fingers, dropped valve, burnt hole in piston - let's not mention the electrics. Fun to drive though - especially on mountain passes. Did I mention anything about having a heavy foot?

cheers edi

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4 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

Not the Austin A40, but the Austin 7, and not the Triumph T100/110, the original W series Kawas were cribbed from the BSA pre-unit twins, the A10. I'm not sure there was a commercial agreement, but the pre-war Meguro (before they were taken over by Kawasaki Heavy Industries) singles seem also to have been based on BSA twin-port singles (my dad had one)

Hi Michael - I think that the Austin 7 was licence-built in Japan. The Datsun Bluebird was the A40 clone. A friend had one of the first ones to arrive here and the head gaskets were interchangeable. The main difference was that they had given the Bluebird engine a OHC head. Another friend used to race a T100 - later he bought a 650 cc Kawasaki - it looked very much more a Triumph than a Beeza. Again DOHC instead of pushrods, four valve/cylinder and red-lined at 9000 rpm.

https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-japanese-motorcycles/kawasaki-w650-zmmz13jfzbea

I cut my teeth on helping rebuild things like Velocettes - KTT and MAC, BSA Gold Stars, Nortons - Manx & Dominators, the odd Triumph twin and Cub and even a single cylinder MV Augusta. Met a young(19 year old) Mike Hailwood on his first trip to South Africa - and drooled over his NSU Rennmax. Next trip it he'd changed it for a fully stream-lined FB Mondial. Almost drowned!

 https://riders.drivemag.com/features/1957-mondial-250-bialbero-racer-test-supreme-single

All good fun but it cost me an extra year at university.

cheers edi

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Hi Ed,

You're absolutely right about the A40/A50 being built under license by Datsun! I wasn't aware of that, although I was aware of the 7. They were pushrod ohv, though, the ohc four coming later when Nissan/Datsun starting doing their own thing, like independant rear suspension in the 510 Bluebird, more a BMW 2000 copy than anything British. I had one of those as my first car, and sadly wrapped it around a tree during a bout of New England black ice!    

The Kawa W650 is a recent neo-retro-classic. Take a look at the Kawa W1,2 and 3 models from the 1960's. Seperate gearbox, pushrod ohv, almost a direct BSA A10 clone, but with metric measurements! The Triumphs were unit construction by then. 

I never got to wrench a great cammy like a KTT or a Manx, but I did have fun working on Goldies or trying to assemble a Vincent clutch! We're seriously off topic, here, but it's fun to see how many bike nuts there are here on Maestronet! A few years back I learned that our esteemed Roger Hargrave used to do the Ace Café run with his mate John Dilworth on Venoms and Commandos back in the day!

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Not to steer the conversation away from an interesting topic, but back to the OP's question.  Don and David gave some great input.  I'm wondering if anyone else is using a strategy for protecting new varnish from chinrest cork.

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22 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

 

 

On 1/25/2019 at 1:31 AM, Bill Yacey said:

 

 

22 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

- snip-

- sadly wrapped it around a tree during a bout of New England black ice!   

The Kawa W650 is a recent neo-retro-classic. Take a look at the Kawa W1,2 and 3 models from the 1960's. Seperate gearbox, pushrod ohv, almost a direct BSA A10 clone, but with metric measurements! The Triumphs were unit construction by then. 

I never got to wrench a great cammy like a KTT or a Manx, but I did have fun working on Goldies or trying to assemble a Vincent clutch! We're seriously off topic, here, but it's fun to see how many bike nuts there are here on Maestronet! A few years back I learned that our esteemed Roger Hargrave used to do the Ace Café run with his mate John Dilworth on Venoms and Commandos back in the day!

Hi Michael - no-one wins a bout with black ice.

One may be lucky to get away with it once or supremely fortunate - twice. (First time in Manitoba - a 150m long fish-tailing past the crossroads where I was supposed to turn to the right! The second - in Slovenia - a right hand curve towards a T-junction. I noticed that the curve was in shadow from the trees on the side of the road, even thought that there might be a chance of some ice in the shadow - and whoops - confirmed it. Pumped the brakes, cycled the hand-brake, tried desperately to spin the car off the road - because there was this bloody great petrol tanker that was going to cross the T a second after I entered it!!!!  Final thoughts were "I'm sorry that my wife was going to be hit first and great regret that the driver of the truck might be incinerated by the fireball/explosion". The car shuddered to a stop on the ice-locked grit on the side of the road. The tanker swept past the grille  with about 6" between us.)

On Kawasaki/Triumph heritage. My apologies I was wrong.  I was led astray by Tim who raced that T100. We bumped into each other after a gap of 15 years. He had taken delivery of a spotlessly clean Kawasaki  twin only minutes before and was gushing on about the twin discs, the balance shaft, the DOHC and the 9000rpm rev limit, the 5 speed box - comparing it to his T100 and leaving me with the impression that it was developed from the Triumph. Thanks for putting me right.

I once rode a Venom - what an incredibly smooth power delivery - in 5th gear - from idle to max revs - who needs a gear box?

In complete contrast was  getting a Manx through the wall at 3500rpm and onto the cam. Twist the grip - all normal through 2000 - 2500 - 3000 - approaching 3250 pull in the clutch - revs jump - catch them at ~ 4500 with the clutch and hang on as the squab of the seat does it's best to separate your pelvis from your spine.....

OK, memory binge over

cheers edi

 

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