Sign in to follow this  
LAivzq

H. R. Pfretzschner bow

Recommended Posts

Hi guys,

Trying to buy a bow. Went to a prominent shop and found an excellent Pfretzschner there (has a certificate). They want $4,500 for it. But it has a gold mounted frog and silver winding. Probably it indicates that the frog is not original, although definitely belong to another Pfretzschner bow. Usually they say that the price should go dramatically down when the frog is not original... Would you take a look at the pics and advise, please: https://imgur.com/a/2zB1sJW

Thanks.

Edited by LAivzq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand ... the lapping (silver) is not original, so it tells you nothing about the bow. Gold wire or tinsel is very expensive, so it's really not uncommon to find a gold mounted bow with a silver lap.

Who has written the certificate? 

I wouldn't say hat a bow should be devalued "dramatically" if the frog and button belong together and come from a different bow by the same maker - maybe 20-25%?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You raise some complicated questions. As to the originality of the frog to the stick, that’s something you have to rely on a true expert’s certificate to believe. There may be all kinds of opinions, but the one that carries the most weight is that of a professional expert who will back up his certificate in the event of any question of authenticity. Read the certificate very carefully and see whether it lists the bow as “original in all its principal parts” or used different language that’s more vague. If it’s the latter, there’s a good chance the frog isn’t original.  

Something else to keep in mind is that the Pfretzschner bows were workshop productions, so even when they were first made, the parts weren’t neessarily all made by one hand. In that case, if you have a bow with an appropriate frog for the time the stick was made, the value can still be fairly high. A lot of the value is determined by the year made. If this bow is pre-war, your price isn’t at the top of the spectrum, especially with gold fittings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

f this bow is pre-war, your price isn’t at the top of the spectrum, especially with gold fittings.

Are the earlier bows worth less?

Are you saying is that even the bows that are clearly stamped HR, were not made by one man working alone? They were a community effort?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Are the earlier bows worth less?

Are you saying is that even the bows that are clearly stamped HR, were not made by one man working alone? They were a community effort?

Yep, that is what he is saying, and it is true. More of a Family effort than a community, but someone from the community could always marry into the trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Martin is correct.  A silver winding does not mean that a gold-mounted frog is not original.

Also, as long as the frog was made in the same shop as the stick and in about the same time period, and the frog fits the stick, I don't see how anyone could know if the frog were not original to the stick.  It's not like a vintage car where you can check the engine serial number to see if it's original to the chassis.

$4500 at a prominent shop for a gold-mounted H R Pfretzschner sounds reasonable to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, duane88 said:

Yep, that is what he is saying, and it is true. More of a Family effort than a community, but someone from the community could always marry into the trade.

Well, when I said “community effort” I meant “everybody in the shop” not the Dutzendarbeit.

Should’ve chosen my words better. Still, that is surprising. I thought those bows were made by one guy.

 It makes me wonder how many other established well respected Bowmakers did not make their items in toto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks so much to each of you. Every bit of info is always helpful. It's a Rembert Wurlitzer certificate (1968). Looks like I was wrong about the frog, it's probably original too. Not to mention that now it's a love affair to me anyway. I love the way it plays, makes music and always alive in your hands. Cheers!

Edited by LAivzq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Are the earlier bows worth less?

Are you saying is that even the bows that are clearly stamped HR, were not made by one man working alone? They were a community effort?

Earlier ones, I don't believe are worth less.

I have seen unstamped 1890 gold mounted Pfretszchner significantly more expensive than OP's. 

Is the OP's one stamped? can't quite see.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A prominent American bowmaker, who shall remain nameless, told me a story of being in Mirecourt at a bow shop and asking if they made their bows all from start to finish, to include the frogs, there, and he was told that they did. Later that evening, after the shop had closed, and a few bottles of wine later, a knock came at the door. It was a friend with a box of finished frogs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am have never posted on this site, but was reading posts very often. Would anyone let me know how it works? It took 16 hours after the initial post to be "approved by a moderator" and finally receive your comments. Now I wrote another comment an hour ago and it still hidden from  you all. The one I am wring now will probably go live in another half a day... Is it only newbies are treated like that? How many posts I need to have to be able to communicate in real time?

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

 

Earlier ones, I don't believe are worth less.

I have seen unstamped 1890 gold mounted Pfretszchner significantly more expensive than OP's. 

Is the OP's one stamped? can't quite see.

 

Likewise.

If this bow is a Pfretzschner, then it looks to be pre 1901 since it doesn't have the Saxon crest on the frog. also the button is a later 19th century style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Are the earlier bows worth less?

Are you saying is that even the bows that are clearly stamped HR, were not made by one man working alone? They were a community effort?

Pre-war bows are worth more than post-war ones, as is the case for most instruments and bows made by major firms.

I’m not sure whether there were any bows made by individual Pfretzschner family members or not, but most that you see were workshop bows. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LAivzq said:

I am have never posted on this site, but was reading posts very often. Would anyone let me know how it works? It took 16 hours after the initial post to be "approved by a moderator" and finally receive your comments. Now I wrote another comment an hour ago and it still hidden from  you all. The one I am wring now will probably go live in another half a day... Is it only newbies are treated like that? How many posts I need to have to be able to communicate in real time?

Thanks.

The first 10 posts from new members require approval from the moderator.  It's an unfortunate result of the need to control internet spammers and trolls.

Just so you understand, I have been a moderator here for a couple decades on a volunteer basis. Especially since I run my own firm and have a family, I am not always on the site.  I check periodically.  Hence the delay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.