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Navyasw02

Tips for getting started on my own

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20 hours ago, violins88 said:

Email me. I think I can help.

jpschmidt44@gmail.com

I would be interested for sharpening lessons too if they exist on the internet. Thanks

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I started with a kit...

It arrived, I looked at all the bits and pieces and said: "OMG!!!" :o

That was about 10 years ago...still have the kit, wood's been futher aged for all those years...that's gotta count for something! ^_^

 

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1 hour ago, Goran74 said:

I would be interested for sharpening lessons too if they exist on the internet. Thanks

Goran,

Here is what I sent to Ashley:

For plane blades, I have a jig that I made. It needs to hold the edge angle at 30 degrees. See attached pic.
 
I use glass as the base, but a granite or marble slab would work. The first abrasive grit is 400 if you don’t have much steel to remove. Wet the back of the abrasive and place it on the glass. Then wet the abrasive top side  push and pull the blade several strokes and look at the scratch pattern. If it shows you are grinding in the middle of the bevel, keep grinding until the whole bevel is scratched by the 400 grit. If this process is too slow, switch to 220 grit.
 
You should be able to feel a burr using the tip of your fingernail on the back of the bevel. Now switch to 800 grit and grind until the scratches are 800 grit ones. Use a loupe to inspect. Move to 1500 grit. Now put a plastic card (hotel room key) under the bottom of the jig so that the edge angle is increased by perhaps one degree. Do maybe 10 to 20 strokes. Change the abrasive to 2000. This should be enough. Remove the jig.  
 
Now for the back of the blade, it would be nice to make it perfectly polished and flat, but that takes too much work, time and abrasive. The compromise is to make a micro bevel at 1 degree using the 2000 grit.  This is done by taping a piece of plastic from a hotel room key to the end of the blade, and then using the 2000 grit.
 
I strop with green chrome oxide paste.

 

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1 hour ago, violins88 said:

Goran,

Here is what I sent to Ashley:

For plane blades, I have a jig that I made. It needs to hold the edge angle at 30 degrees. See attached pic.
 
I use glass as the base, but a granite or marble slab would work. The first abrasive grit is 400 if you don’t have much steel to remove. Wet the back of the abrasive and place it on the glass. Then wet the abrasive top side  push and pull the blade several strokes and look at the scratch pattern. If it shows you are grinding in the middle of the bevel, keep grinding until the whole bevel is scratched by the 400 grit. If this process is too slow, switch to 220 grit.
 
You should be able to feel a burr using the tip of your fingernail on the back of the bevel. Now switch to 800 grit and grind until the scratches are 800 grit ones. Use a loupe to inspect. Move to 1500 grit. Now put a plastic card (hotel room key) under the bottom of the jig so that the edge angle is increased by perhaps one degree. Do maybe 10 to 20 strokes. Change the abrasive to 2000. This should be enough. Remove the jig.  
 
Now for the back of the blade, it would be nice to make it perfectly polished and flat, but that takes too much work, time and abrasive. The compromise is to make a micro bevel at 1 degree using the 2000 grit.  This is done by taping a piece of plastic from a hotel room key to the end of the blade, and then using the 2000 grit.
 
I strop with green chrome oxide paste.

 

Thank you very much for the information. Wish you a happy new year.

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9 hours ago, Navyasw02 said:

Thanks all for the suggestions and PMs. Besides Hock tools anybody else have any recommendations for good tools vendors for getting the basics? 

I make knives of O1 steel and particle metallurgy steel.

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14 hours ago, Navyasw02 said:

Thanks all for the suggestions and PMs. Besides Hock tools anybody else have any recommendations for good tools vendors for getting the basics? 

If you buy top quality hand tools (Lie-Nielsen, Veritas etc.), and maintain them well, they will hold their value.  You will be able to easily sell them for 75% of the current new price.  If you sell after a few years it's like having a free tool with a refundable deposit when you're done with it.  It's a good argument that works well with the wife, except I'll probably die before I sell my tools.  B)   I don't own any of John's knives (sorry John), but I've used and sharpened one of his 01 bridge knives and they work well.  For the least pain, I suggest buying the tool as you need it.  For your first build, if you buy a one piece top and back, you will not need a bench plane. Old gouges can be bought cheap, or you can buy new ones.  I would not buy cheap new ones.  For almost any question you have, there are probably a couple of threads on the topic.  Google search is the best way to find them, e.g. gouges site: maestronet.com.  Here's a fairly recent thread that gives a list of other good threads on tools that will keep you reading for a while.  

 

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2 hours ago, Jim Bress said:

If you buy top quality hand tools (Lie-Nielsen, Veritas etc.), and maintain them well, they will hold their value.  You will be able to easily sell them for 75% of the current new price.  If you sell after a few years it's like having a free tool with a refundable deposit when you're done with it.  It's a good argument that works well with the wife, except I'll probably die before I sell my tools.  B)   I don't own any of John's knives (sorry John), but I've used and sharpened one of his 01 bridge knives and they work well.  For the least pain, I suggest buying the tool as you need it.  For your first build, if you buy a one piece top and back, you will not need a bench plane. Old gouges can be bought cheap, or you can buy new ones.  I would not buy cheap new ones.  For almost any question you have, there are probably a couple of threads on the topic.  Google search is the best way to find them, e.g. gouges site: maestronet.com.  Here's a fairly recent thread that gives a list of other good threads on tools that will keep you reading for a while.  

 

Yup, good tools hold their value, bad tools are never worth what they cost. 

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17 hours ago, Goran74 said:

I would be interested for sharpening lessons too if they exist on the internet. Thanks

Good Place to start. 

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2017/07/10/sharpen-this-part-1/

Also look for Paul Sellers videos, pretty much any of the big name Handtool furniture guys have videos or blogs about sharpening edge tools and scrapers.

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19 hours ago, Goran74 said:

I would be interested for sharpening lessons too if they exist on the internet. Thanks

Hi Goran - my recommendation - waterpaper-on-floatglass and using a jig...

Reference...

http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/sitemap.html

If it's not in there it isn't important.

Some of us even get mentioned in the homemade jig section.

cheers edi

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If you are going out to japan, there is a violin making school in Tottori. I have no idea if they can offer anything that suits your needs, but it would be well worth making some kind of contact, or visiting them. Just visiting will help you learn things. 

I'd suggest, given your life, separating violin making into its component parts, otherwise the idea of completing a violin will be daunting. Work on making violin scrolls for a bit, then, creating ribs, etc. I'm the last one to tell a military man to strategise - but I think applying some of your training to the project will be a total bonus for you. 

Good luck

 

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45 minutes ago, edi malinaric said:

Hi Goran - my recommendation - waterpaper-on-floatglass and using a jig...

 

My current favorite is Shapton water stones, the downside being that it involves a much higher initial investment than a few sheets of sandpaper.

The Shapton water stones are probably re-sellable (like any quality tool), should that weigh into the equation.

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12 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

My current favorite is Shapton water stones, the downside being that it involves a much higher initial investment than a few sheets of sandpaper.

The Shapton water stones are probably re-sellable (like any quality tool), should that weigh into the equation.

Hi David - I read up on those a couple of years back. The prices scared me off but if I  ever manage to catch my fairy godmother in a moment of weakness I could well be tempted.

All the best - edi

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2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

My current favorite is Shapton water stones, the downside being that it involves a much higher initial investment than a few sheets of sandpaper.

The Shapton water stones are probably re-sellable (like any quality tool), should that weigh into the equation.

What micron(s) do you recommend?  

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2 hours ago, Goran74 said:

Thank you Mr Edi. Very helpfull.

Hi Goran74 - please just plain edi will do. No need to make me feel older.

Google Shapton stones that David mentioned - they are the next step beyond waterpaper-on-glass.

Both systems share the great advantage that they use graded abrasives - so there is less chance of unwanted " scratches" from a variation in particle size damaging the edge. 

Just for interest here is a comparison chart that relates microns to mesh sizes.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=comparison+chart+-+microns+to+grit+sizes&fr=tightropetb&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjendeindustries.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F01%2Fep-shapton-chosera-micron-comparison4.jpg#id=33&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjewelclark.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2FsandingGritMicronConversionChart.png&action=click

Don't lose too much sleep over this - hardly anyone manages to agree.

cheers edi

 

 

 

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On December 25, 2018 at 7:04 AM, Navyasw02 said:

Any recommendations for sharpening lessons? Good YouTube or websites? Thanks

 

As for getting luthiers to help - Ive had a lot of enthusiastic responses, but no follow through. 

There is a book called "sharpening small tools" by Ian Kirby which you may find useful. Also one of the best books on general woodwork and tool use is a book called "planecraft" ,British around 1940s, sold by woodcraft in the 70's and 80's and I can look up the authors and publisher when I get back to the shop in a week or two. Very nice little book!

As far as learning from luthiers you must either have skills they can use and be willing to work when they need you or be ready to pay their normal, hourly professional rate for lessons. The follow through must come from you not them.

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Navy, you should come visit the workshop at Potters before you move. We can have a cup of coffee and talk tool roll with the luthiers. I work with two cats that rightfully consider themselves handtool savants, and the odd few budget luthiers as well.

I have always spit a little coffee when I see recommendations to SPEND THE MOST to completely unblooded violin makers. I thrive with soft, durable Berg Swedish chisels and gouges except for scroll work, where I am now happiest with gem-hard rc 65+ Japanese gouges with nubbed off handles;

i recently got @violins88 to make me three knives at his unique high-angle bevel and super-durability, but I worked with long-beveled German steel before that and learned pretty well;

and 20 years in, I greatly prefer the light, crisp prewar Stanley hand planes to the Lie Nielsens that I still use, and admire, but which I beggared myself to get when starting out, because it was easier to use a HEAVY plane than succeed at sharpening...

If you use the hand tools, you will find your own oddities. But there is no shame in buying, then flipping a set of gouges on eBay at a profit after scrubbing them up and adding “violinmaker” to the listing, either...

good saws and the rare willingness to sharpen them (and your bandsaw blades and peg shapers and reamers), are a new story...

Wednesday or Thursday afternoon usually slows down a hair, or email me if you’d like. We’re in Takoma Park.

-chris

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On 12/23/2018 at 8:59 PM, Navyasw02 said:

I'm looking to try making one to see if I enjoy the process enough to invest the time and money into going to school and pursue it as a second career.

 

We could do that in about a week,  to ten,,, including making the varnish,,  12 to 14 hour days,,,,if you're just half of what you should be for all the detailed things that you do. I've had a number of Navy Nukes for friends, sking, long moter bike road trips, lots of interaction, pretty tight minded clear headed folks,

You need a clear focus and able to get right to whatever you are shown to do without piddling around or being paralyzed about making a mistake. Some guys move real slow, years to literally finish the first one, or a week or so.  I do every step traditionally without power, and several ways with power, I teach multiple ways to do every thing simply and effectively to get control and results. Many different types and thicknesses of scrapers, different tools, different styles of clamps , ect.... you choose what floats your boat and fits your style, I don't care if you use your teeth, but I would like to watch, I do love new tricks.

Everything provided,,,, ( except you, your camera and a huge note book, maybe some food and coffee)  but it's not free.

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