Choosing a Guitar 101

[Rue]

1 hour ago, reg said:

A Spanish guitar with cutouts?

Horrors! Iconoclast!

Acoustics yes but they are steel strung

1 hour ago, Michael Jennings said:

Seems to be "market forces" these days... everyone is going to have the opportunity to perform in front of 100s/1000s so obviously going to need SOUND REINFORCEMENT!

Cutaways ore a bit overrated unless you're going to be playing a lot way up there.....

However lack of a cutaway never seemed to hamper; Segovia, Williams, Parkening, Barrenburg, Rice, Watson, and on and on.

I doubt I'll ever play up there... but never say never! 

I'll bet all those guitarists play a mean "Banks of the Ohio"...

[Bill Merkel]

Violin players don't want callouses on their fingers.  But if I was going to get a guitar it would be this one:  Tiny electric w/ built-in amplifier and speaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyuJggtDMJo

[Rue]

Oh my! Yet another guitar type I've never heard of! Now I'm in danger of channelling George Thorogood! 

I already have callouses...courtesy of my mandolin...

[Michael Jennings]

Re: Banks of the Ohio.

Well Doc, Tony, and Russ certainly do (did)..... probably a bit out of the repertoire for Andreas, John and Christopher.

[reg]

"Daddy played a mean guitar in some old broken town, way down, way way down the Mississippi"

If I remember right?

[Blank face]

4 hours ago, Rue said:

But I'm not going to let that stop me from trying!

What I learnt from my most admired teacher was that you mustn't try sophisticated stuff to begin with; to get comfortable with the instrument just take it, hold it gently, tap it,  play some simple notes and listen. You could hug it or sing some of your parrot's favourite tunes into the soundhole.

If it still feels uncomfortable after doing this for some times look for something else...

[MarkBouquet]

On 12/17/2018 at 9:39 AM, Rue said:

Anyone happen to know why cutaways always seem to have electronics?  I can't seem to find a totally acoustic cutaway.

Cutaways are an acoustic compromise. It doesn't matter if the guitar is primarily meant to be played amplified. But it does diminish the output for an acoustically played guitar.

[MarkBouquet]

4 hours ago, Rue said:

 

[Rue]

Okay! Makes sense.

I might have to let that feature go then.

Thank you!

[James Ansara]

Hi Rue, 

I know that this doesn't pertain to your question... but you are a Canadian. 

Just for your own interest, check out some of the guitar makers of the "Canadian" school: Jean Larivee, William "Grit" Laskin, David Wren, Linda Manzer, Sergei De Jonge (my opinion, the del Gesu), Jim Friesen, Alistair Miller. Amongst others I can't think of at the moment.       I sincerely hope that the guitar and you will get along!

Have fun,

James

[J Corry]

As a side thought to James's comment above (all of which are great builders) if you are looking for something a bit cheaper I have always found the guitars made by Godin family of companies to be excellent, possibly the best bang for your buck in an under $750 CAD acoustic. They make the guitars under the names of Seagull, Art and Lutherie, Simon and Patrick Luthier and others. Some may have laminate back and sides though. 

[Michael.N.]

Actually the cutaway dates to about 1830 but in that case it was a double cutaway. The original Gibson SG as I call it, except it was an acoustic gut strung romantic guitar (sadly no electronics for those hard of hearing). When the single 6 string guitar emerged from the baroque guitar there was no end of innovations with some rather curious looking affairs. The clock key adjustable neck, geared tuners date from this period and of course all the multi stringed guitars too. The romantic guitar never quite went out of fashion (although it was largely superseded by the large Spanish model). The romantic guitar (what became the parlour) was still popular in northern Europe in the early 20 th century with production very much confined to the same areas where all the trade violins were made.  Personally I think many of the romantic type guitars are much prettier than the large rather bloated looking Spanish models. Having said that Torres made some very elegant smaller models.  

 

 

 

[jezzupe]

look into a parlor guitars, they are small

[Ken_N]

22 hours ago, reg said:

Yup go for a genuine Spanish (not cheap) guitar used for flamenco by Ramirez. These are smaller in build and have a lovely sound. Apart from the genuine article, Admira make a good range up to £400 approximately

I have plans for a guitar like that that was build in 1909 by Ramirez 1.  Shorter 613 scale.  880 g. strung up and ready to play.  A big wind could blow it away.  About as basic as it gets.  The trick would be to make it so it doesn't look like it was made by a beginner, or someone in a hurry.

I've been looking at old Italian Romantic guitars lately. Guadagnini's,  Fabricatore, and others.  Some very cool looking ones. They don't look that big, but I haven't looked into them that closely.  Just looking.  There are some very gaudy ones too.  A whole rabbit hole you could get lost in. 

Far more variety than even violas! 

 

[Rue]

15 hours ago, James Ansara said:

Hi Rue, 

I know that this doesn't pertain to your question... but you are a Canadian. 

Just for your own interest, check out some of the guitar makers of the "Canadian" school: Jean Larivee, William "Grit" Laskin, David Wren, Linda Manzer, Sergei De Jonge (my opinion, the del Gesu), Jim Friesen, Alistair Miller. Amongst others I can't think of at the moment.       I sincerely hope that the guitar and you will get along!

Have fun,

James

Thank you!  I will do that.  Although I'm sure they're all way out of budget!

6 hours ago, jezzupe said:

look into a parlor guitars, they are small

The nut is still wider than that of the crossover.

13 hours ago, J Corry said:

As a side thought to James's comment above (all of which are great builders) if you are looking for something a bit cheaper I have always found the guitars made by Godin family of companies to be excellent, possibly the best bang for your buck in an under $750 CAD acoustic. They make the guitars under the names of Seagull, Art and Lutherie, Simon and Patrick Luthier and others. Some may have laminate back and sides though. 

I will look into those too.  I have heard of Seagull.

[Michael Jennings]

Just FYI Rue.

The standard nut width on most classical/flamenco guitars [nylon] is 2"

Standard nut width on most steel string is 1 11/16".

There are many vintage Martins and their modern "reissues" that are 1 3/4"

There are a few "vintage" like the Gibson LGO that are as narrow as 1 5/8" .

I have fairly small hands and find that the 1 5/8' nuts are too small and crowded for me.  I have been playing for 50+ years but still find the standard steel widths as well as the classical widths [slightly different technique] quite comfortable to play.

Any thing is going to feel wide at first compared to the fiddle or mandolin...... just takes some getting used to.

[Rue]

I agree...but...

I have some arthritis-type issues.  

[Matthew Hannafin]

Hi Rue, good luck on the hunt!

I just wanted to say, that a properly set up guitar can really play quite easily.  Most new factory instruments will just press in the frets, and then fit a nut and saddle that leave the strings higher (sometimes a lot higher) than is needed for a good setup...in an effort to compensate the inevitable uneven fret.

I would plan to have any guitar properly set up, with a fret dressing, and setting the string height correctly at the nut and saddle, as well as proper neck relief for the strings you want to use.  Some shops may throw this in when you're buying a new instrument from them.

Another route entirely, if you have a shop you like and trust...is find out what they would charge for a neck reset, refret and bridge reglue, and take that as a rough guide and start shopping around for second hand gems.  There are lots of great old guitars out there that need work to play right, but are nicely made solid wood instruments.  Harmony, Silvertone, Kalamazoo, old broken down Gibsons, 70s & 80s Martins.  All fully serviceable guitars with hide-glued dovetail necks (easy to work on).  Even some old Yamaha guitars are quite nice when they're all setup...those aren't all solid wood, but you can usually tell if it's a laminate by looking at the end grain around the sound-hole.  Anyway, sometimes you can snag a real gem for absolutely peanuts.

[Ken_N]

One the other side of a small guitar there is this beast; an alto guitar.  I love the extended range.  The low notes are much appreciated to me.  I don't understand why Ukes will have the low note an octave up.  It is a very short scale, and is pitched higher, but has lower bass notes that can be tuned wherever you need them.

I know this won't help you Rue,  but I just heard this, and it is very good.

 

[Rue]

On 12/17/2018 at 6:59 AM, uncle duke said:

Find a player of classical guitar in your neck of the woods and maybe just ask them to convince you that you should keep your guitar just by having them play yours for you.  You'll know soon after if you want to continue that journey or not.

  You have an advantage over most players and that is that you can actually read music - don't forget that.  

Problem is...I like a little of a lot...

I'm aware, given time constraints, that any guitar I have is primarily just to 'play' with.  However, I am now spoiled and I don't want a $50 laminate instrument.  If I'm going to spend more time looking at it than playing it, I want to look at something beautiful.

And - before anyone thinks that's nuts - it's less nuts than 'guitar collectors' in my opinion...(or any other collector).  How many guitars can you play?  While Googling, I came across one guy who buys/sells (mostly at a loss), but proudly states it's given him the opportunity to play 200-300 guitars.  If that's his 'thing', why not?

Speaking of reading music.  I have a fairly easy Beethoven Concerto for Mandolin on hand.  I think I'll put the bluegrass away for a while and give it a go...may as well make use of my newly forming callouses.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Ken_N said:

One the other side of a small guitar there is this beast; an alto guitar.  I love the extended range.  The low notes are much appreciated to me.  I don't understand why Ukes will have the low note an octave up.  It is a very short scale, and is pitched higher, but has lower bass notes that can be tuned wherever you need them.

I know this won't help you Rue,  but I just heard this, and it is very good.

 

That is lovely!  However...TOO MANY STRINGS!!!  

[Rue]

19 hours ago, Matthew Hannafin said:

Hi Rue, good luck on the hunt!

I just wanted to say, that a properly set up guitar can really play quite easily.  Most new factory instruments will just press in the frets, and then fit a nut and saddle that leave the strings higher (sometimes a lot higher) than is needed for a good setup...in an effort to compensate the inevitable uneven fret.

I would plan to have any guitar properly set up, with a fret dressing, and setting the string height correctly at the nut and saddle, as well as proper neck relief for the strings you want to use.  Some shops may throw this in when you're buying a new instrument from them.

Another route entirely, if you have a shop you like and trust...is find out what they would charge for a neck reset, refret and bridge reglue, and take that as a rough guide and start shopping around for second hand gems.  There are lots of great old guitars out there that need work to play right, but are nicely made solid wood instruments.  Harmony, Silvertone, Kalamazoo, old broken down Gibsons, 70s & 80s Martins.  All fully serviceable guitars with hide-glued dovetail necks (easy to work on).  Even some old Yamaha guitars are quite nice when they're all setup...those aren't all solid wood, but you can usually tell if it's a laminate by looking at the end grain around the sound-hole.  Anyway, sometimes you can snag a real gem for absolutely peanuts.

Thanks!  The shop I got my mandolin from also makes guitars.  If I buy through them, I'm sure they will make sure everything is set up properly.  They're super nice.

I don't know enough to be able to snag a gem though...:(

[Bill Yacey]

On 12/17/2018 at 10:39 AM, Rue said:

Anyone happen to know why cutaways always seem to have electronics?  I can't seem to find a totally acoustic cutaway.

Same reason that you don't find proper violins with cutaways; it's messing with tradition.

[bengreen]

Thanks for the topic Rue. My guitar had been languishing in its case the last couple of years. Got it out again last night. Forgot how cozy and intimate an instrument it is. And nice to discover it doesn't irritate my increasingly shredded shoulder the way the bass I'm paid to play does.

[Rue]

5 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

Same reason that you don't find proper violins with cutaways; it's messing with tradition.

Hmm...I'm not sure about that...

4 hours ago, bengreen said:

Thanks for the topic Rue. My guitar had been languishing in its case the last couple of years. Got it out again last night. Forgot how cozy and intimate an instrument it is. And nice to discover it doesn't irritate my increasingly shredded shoulder the way the bass I'm paid to play does.

Happy to be of help! 

It is kinda nice to hug a guitar! 

I dusted off my guitar books...might have to see if I can shred Mello Yellow.