Kloz ID

[tradfiddle]

Well, I'm not saying that... but there are some clear 'dimension groups' for 18th century Mittenwald violins. Some makers were remarkably consistent. And some were a bit rough and ready. But for me its really the locator pins  and the one piece slab back that are outside of normal Mittenwald expectations.

[feelingfaceform]

Looks like a nice fiddle

[uguntde]

I will post dimensions when I have access to the instrument again later this week as I am currently travelling.

I always wondered about the locating pins, the shape of the f holes, the one piece front and slab back. Also the square blocks, not the round half moon shape typical for Kloz instruments. More like what you see in later French violins.

 

[uguntde]

Here the dimensions, hard to measure over the high arch:

Length of back over arch: 358mm

Width:     upper bouts: 166mm
                 lower bouts: 204mm
                 mid C bouts: 114mm

Rib heights: neck: 31-32mm, bottom 32-33mm, mid C bouts 31mm, corners (all 4) 32mm

[tradfiddle]

Longer lengths of 358-360mm tend to be more common on post 1780 in Mittenwald instruments. Earlier ones tend to hit a ceiling around 356mm. Your c bout width (114mm) is on the wide side for anything out of Mittenwald and has a French aspect to it. In my accumulated database your measurements are closest to Joseph Knitl instruments (1777-1791):

However, none of Knitl's instruments that I have seen have slab backs or locator pins.

I use metric comparisons as an initial guide of 'the possible' from which to then go over to stylistic traits. I suppose its the professional archaeologist in me - it works for all other sorts of material culture.

However your problem is that aspects of the technical style - the pins, wood choice for the back - are not very 18th century Mittenwald. This pushes me more in the direction of early to mid 19th century where there is unfortunately less Mittenwald maker instrument documentation.

[rossini]

how about  Schmidt ?

[uguntde]

The square shaped blocks (not the half moon shape) is French, isn't it?

[tradfiddle]

Square shaped blocks can be many, many things - and even with Mittenwald instruments corner blocks are usually just subtly concave, not glaringly so. And many other areas can also have concave blocks. But I am not a qualified blockologist like some other folk here!

[uguntde]

Knitl should have a signature on the back. I will have another close look whether there is anything faded, but I think not, I would have seen this. The pins, in particular the 3 in the button, could be later - although, why would anyone add 3 pins there??? Reminds me of Monty Python's Michelangelo in which he paints the Last SUpper with 3 Christs.

[martin swan]

The 3 pins in the button look like a quaint repair to a separated button ...

The two in the back look like later additions.

 

[tradfiddle]

Martin - why add locator pins (the ones top and bottom - not the ones on the button) after the fact? To make it look Italian?

[martin swan]

2 hours ago, tradfiddle said:

Martin - why add locator pins (the ones top and bottom - not the ones on the button) after the fact? To make it look Italian?

Yes - it's an extremely common way of dressing mutton up as lamb ...