PEGBOX REPAIR HELP

[Guitartorre]

Hi forum

I Need some help,

I think it was repaired with epoxi, how can I be sure of it? if so, does it have a solution?

How is it best, go one by one or all the cracks at a time.

Next, if it is reparable, will be remake the holes.

What do you will do?

The cracs go all around the pegbox, and you can open and close the gap a little, the inside have an ugly insert that is maintainig all the thing together. If you look inside the crack it looks like there is stalactites and stalagmites, could be expoxi not cured? How to clean tahat?

The violin is a french one 70-80 years old, not so much value and good sound, and I have little experience repairing, I make my own violins I am now in my #5

and need help.

Thank you for reading.

@violintorre

 

 

[deans]

Not any direct answer to your question, but just looking at this along with your description of the fiddle, I would just set this to the side and focus on other work.

Or, since your are making your own instruments, just make a new scroll and neck altogether.

[jacobsaunders]

3 hours ago, deans said:

 

Or, since your are making your own instruments, just make a new scroll and neck altogether.

One could also consider making a new peg box, which wouldn't be to diffucult, since one would have the original one to copy.

[baroquecello]

graft the scroll onto a new neck and peg box, would be best, I think. 

[Nick Allen]

16 minutes ago, baroquecello said:

graft the scroll onto a new neck and peg box, would be best, I think. 

This would probably be less work than repairing it. 

[Violadamore]

Fixing it without a graft is do-able, but with the lack of historical and market importance, I'm not going to encourage it.  IMHO, you'd be looking at a meticulous solvent/brush cleaning of the cracks, then closing them all with custom clamp jigs, followed by some various inlays, and bushing all the holes,  as well as refinishing what you cleaned.  Under the described circumstances, I'd lean toward swapping out the neck entire, from my junk box.

[Moroni Larson]

 

[Brad Dorsey]

9 hours ago, Guitartorre said:

...If you look inside the crack it looks like there is stalactites and stalagmites, could be expoxi not cured? How to clean tahat?...

To me that looks like it might be white glue.  To see if it is, brush some water into the crack and keep it moist for 10 minutes.  If it is white glue, it will soon turn an opaque white color and start to soften.  If this test shows that it is white glue, you can remove it by keeping it moist and scraping it out with a thin blade.  Eventually you may be able to separate the parts, scrape off the glue and glue it all back together.

If you manage to do this, I doubt that the violin you end up with will be worth the time you spend on it.

[edi malinaric]

Hi Guitartorre - I'm the last guy to say "not worth doing" or "replace is the only option" so this is a first for me.

From the way the wood has cracked I suspect that the wood used for the neck my have been force dried too violently or at too high  temperature for too long - something like that - leaving the entire wood too brittle to withstand the stresses.Best seen by the insert of a patch inside the pegbox that is in an area that shouldn't be stressed at all! 

I don't know of any way to cure that. A successful repair is impossible because the wood will just crack either side of any repair that you do.

To use a phrase often used to soften a damning report the wood was "not fit for purpose".

Only good repair would be select a nice piece of air-dried wood and carefully study it for 5 years before beginning to carve it.

cheers edi

[Johnmasters]

Perhaps thinning the walls of the pegbox from the outside.   Use a saw to cut through the old cracks,  lay in strong slips of wood.

Fill the pegholes and then fit cheeks to the outside surfaces.  The only real problem then is to match varnish.

[Mike_Danielson]

And now for a completely different idea:

1.  Since the old repair used a bad glue like aliphatic or epoxy, use a hair drier to heat the peg box up to where you can just barely touch it (about 55 degree C).  These glues are thermoplastic and you may be able to "rebreak" the glue joints apart.  If this works, then remove the glue by scraping with a knife on the fracture surfaces. 

2.  Reglue with hide glue, and bush.

3.  Install mechanical pegs because they will not restress the glue joint like the friction, tapered pegs do.

Mike D

[Guido]

I would certainly not try to repair this one and would minimize any time/ effort.

Judging by the scroll it is a cheap instrument for starters and if the body has issues I'd consider it firewood.

If the body is good, I would transplant a complete neck with head from an organ donor, rather than carving or grafting anything.

[Guitartorre]

First thanks to all for your help. 

 

I could put apart the main glued surfaces, I think the glue never get cured, wash it with acetone and reglued with hide glue.... And a couple of plastic ties as "sofisticated" cauls.

Next will be the bushings, and at least one mechanical peg. 

But wood there is not in good condition, there is more epoxi all around...

Let's see what happens when bushing.

One of the images are clean, the other have glue.

It must be a impossible cheap repair