Cause of E String Trouble?

[rynthae]

Hi Everyone,
 

I would probably be considered an intermediate violin player, and in practicing on a couple of the violins I build I noticed a bit of trouble on the E string on one of them. I am trying to figure out what might be causing this--if it is the E string itself, the bridge, the bowing, or another aspect of playing technique. I have practiced playing the same song (a chord-heavy arrangement of the Aran Boat Song) on two violins: Morgan and Annabella. Morgan is fitted with Evah Pirazzi (regular) GDA strings and a Hill E string. Annabella is fitted with the whole regular Evah Pirazzi string set (including E string). There is one part of the song with a sort of modified triple stop / fast arpeggio that rolls over the open D-A-E strings (ending on E, then going into a grace note F natural and back to open E before continuing) with an aggressive down bow. I usually don't have any trouble playing this part on Morgan. I have practiced this song a lot more on Morgan, and it doesn't seem to be an issue. However more recently I've begun practicing the same piece on Annabella and probably 7/10 times the hard sustained open E at the end of the modified triple stop / fast arpeggio whistles. Not just a quick whistle, either, but the whistle lasts for the whole length of the note.

I haven't noticed problems with the E string on either one with any other piece, and I have had a variety of other people play both of them (many who are much more skilled than I am), and it has never produced this problem for anyone else. I have watched carefully the last several times and the bow is completely straight when it happens, so I don't think that is the cause in this case. I tried switching bows, and it didn't make a difference--the problem persisted.

If anyone has any insight in what might be causing this I would be really grateful... is this just caused by some kind of poor technique on my part, or the type of string, could it be a difference in the bridge arc between the two violins that is throwing me off, or is it something else?

Thanks for your help in advance,

-rynthae

EDIT: I switched to a Hill E string on Annabella to match the other violin and it seemed to cure the whistle! It hasn't whistled since then. Thanks for your help everyone!

[sospiri]

14 hours ago, rynthae said:

is this just caused by some kind of poor technique on my part

Most likely yes. And you have to work out what it is that you are doing wrong. You are probably using the same bowing action on both instruments, which is automatic, but each violin needs to be bowed differently because even if you try to set them up the same, there will always be subtle differences.

So you have to work out a technique that doesn't cause the whilsling. Playing the open E with different angles and proximity to the bridge should help you find this out.

It happens to the best players too, so don't be discouraged.

 

14 hours ago, rynthae said:

could it be a difference in the bridge arc between the two violins that is throwing me off

Possibly.

[Andrew Victor]

Some E strings have a tendency to whistle on at least some (of my) violins. I have not had the problem using the Peter Infeld platinum-coated E string nor the Warchal E strings that are sold pre-twisted (coiled). The Warchals are really powerful and rich E strings.

If I recall correctly the "over-wound" Dominant E is also whistle-resistant, but not so powerful. But I've not used one for decades.

[deans]

Check the groove in the nut. An oversize groove can sometimes cause e string issues

[palousian]

The Warchal "Amber E" is great, and also the Kaplan Solutions non-whistling e does the job.  It would be worth it to try one of these, IMO, because then you'd get a clear sense if it's the violin/e string groove, etc. 

I play a lot of fiddle music, and that means open strings, and I cannot abide a whistle.  I am currently using a Kaplan e, and it sounds great on my violin.  So did the Warchal.  While it is possible that your technique causes the whistle... I doubt it...

[sospiri]

20 hours ago, palousian said:

  While it is possible that your technique causes the whistle... I doubt it...

 

I was testing this hypothesis yesterday, playing a D on the A string and open E in one stroke, both with and without whistling. It was definitely an issue of technique.

The whistling is caused by the string twisting and that is caused by not enough bow pressure, such that the string is stroked too lightly. Buying more expensive Es is not addressing the technical issue of improper bowing technique in my opinion.

One technique I found which eliminated the problem was to dip the wrist when playing the open E.

 

[rynthae]

Thanks for your advice everyone! I will check the nut and keep an eye on my technique. Some investigative research revealed that the Evah Pirazzi E string has a few reviews that mention whistling as a problem, whereas the Hill E string (which I have not had trouble with) had reviews saying it was less likely to whistle.

Technique could definitely be a factor as well, so I’ll watch my bow closely and experiment to find out more. I've also considered the possibility that a recent injury might be factoring into the technique, too. About a month ago I fell down some wooden stairs and hit the inside of my elbow pretty hard... ignored it since it didn't look too alarming in the morning, and proceeded to do heavy lifting (we were moving) for the next few days, when it gave out. (It is my bow arm and my dominant arm sadly). The doctor said it was tendinitis, but thought it would heal up fine. It's been about a month since then? I think my bowing is all right and pretty much back to normal, it just aches a lot after heavy violin practice or anything else that uses it a lot.

On 11/12/2018 at 7:06 AM, sospiri said:

You are probably using the same bowing action on both instruments, which is automatic, but each violin needs to be bowed differently because even if you try to set them up the same, there will always be subtle differences.

Thanks for the advice--I'll keep practicing and see if things improve on the one violin!

On 11/13/2018 at 7:12 AM, Andrew Victor said:

Some E strings have a tendency to whistle on at least some (of my) violins. I have not had the problem using the Peter Infeld platinum-coated E string nor the Warchal E strings that are sold pre-twisted (coiled). The Warchals are really powerful and rich E strings.

 

On 11/13/2018 at 10:08 AM, palousian said:

The Warchal "Amber E" is great... I play a lot of fiddle music, and that means open strings, and I cannot abide a whistle.  I am currently using a Kaplan e, and it sounds great on my violin.  So did the Warchal.  While it is possible that your technique causes the whistle... I doubt it...

Thanks for the tip, you two! I have a set of Warchal Ambers on an old German Violin that I take care of and have really liked using them on that one. I might look into trying the Amber E on future violins, too.  I play fiddle and classical pieces, and fiddle tunes (especially show tunes) involve some pretty hard playing... so it makes sense that some strings might not be up to it. So far I've had pretty good experiences with the Hill E and Warchal Amber E though.

On 11/13/2018 at 9:49 AM, deans said:

Check the groove in the nut. An oversize groove can sometimes cause e string issues

Will do! I did just readjust the nut a couple weeks ago, so I'll check that out. Thanks!
 

On 11/14/2018 at 7:04 AM, sospiri said:

The whistling is caused by the string twisting and that is caused by not enough bow pressure, such that the string is stroked too lightly. Buying more expensive Es is not addressing the technical issue of improper bowing technique in my opinion.

One technique I found which eliminated the problem was to dip the wrist when playing the open E.

I'm using a ton of pressure on the chord (which might be the trouble, but it is also necessary for the piece. It is basically a rapid fortissimo three-string chord--and I have no trouble with it playing on the other violin (with a different E string) which is why I was wondering if it was the limitations of the string itself. It's a "fast attack" chord, so I use the full bow and tons of pressure at high speed. I have been keeping a sharp eye on my bow to make sure it is indeed straight, as well, and it has been every time I looked up to check. Thanks for the tip about the wrist--I will keep an eye on that as well and make sure nothing wonky is going on there.  

[Spelman]

Second the recommendation on the Amber E from Warchal.

A light gauge (heavier gauges sound too brassy to my ear) No. 1 E from Pirastro is also a decent E string that is virtually whistle proof.

[devaraja42]

I agree with the Warchal Amber E recommendation ... I'd recommend the heavy gauge Amber E to go with Pirazzis; the heavy gauge Pirastro Universal No. 1 E could also work. The Westminster heavy gauge E string also works well with the Evah Pirazzi set, but it isn't completely whistle-resistant.

[Andreas Preuss]

I think D'Addario made a whistle free e string as well. 

[Andrew Victor]

I recall being advised years ago to twist my E string a few turns before installing it to make it more torque-resistant as a way to reduce the tendency to whistle. I can't remember if that worked back then, but I do remember that I stopped worrying about the whistle - so maybe it did. But I stopped playing Bach's Chaconne a long time ago, too!

[rynthae]

 

Thanks for the advice everyone! I ended up switching out the E string on Annabella to a Hill E (same one that has been working well on the other violin, Morgan) and it seemed to cure the issue! I tried repeatedly to make it whistle hitting the chord at varying speeds/pressure and it didn't whistle even a little bit. I'll definitely keep the Amber E and the other strings in mind for future violins!

I'll keep the twisting trick in mind, too @Andrew Victor! That sounds like a good ace to have up the sleeve.

I really appreciate everyone's help with this!

[Jere W]

My three violins' E strings whistled. I started using less rosin and wipe the strings after playing and in a week they didn't whistle no matter the playing technique.

[Michael Richwine]

I've never had a customer complain of string whistle on one of my instruments. And on the rare occasions when the subject comes up on instruments that are new to me, I have been able to remedy it by correcting the fit of the sound post. Every time. So far. But it's only been a couple of decades.