Cello ID

[cellopera]

Hello everyone! Could you please help me identify this Cello, or point me into the direction of someone who could? I have purchased this instrument in 2016 and couldn’t find someone to give me a complete explanation of this instruments’ Maker. The Luthier that I had bought it from states that it is from the French School (Mirecourt) around 1850. Other people suggested it might be a Vuillaume composite Cello. What do you think?  Measurements: 351x237x443 mm, LOB: 775 mm

[Dwight Brown]

I don’t really know what it is. But it might be the best looking instrument posted here for ID in a while.

 

DLB

[PhilipKT]

1 hour ago, Dwight Brown said:

I don’t really know what it is. But it might be the best looking instrument posted here for ID in a while.

 

DLB

I agree, very attractive cello. Missing a couple of pegs, ha ha

[PhilipKT]

It has a grafted scroll. Could it be older than 1850?

[Richf]

I understand well that it was common to lengthen the necks of early violins after 1800 and that the standard for new construction came to include the longer violin string lengths.  But I've never heard that that occurred for cellos, too.  I always assumed that a head graft for a cello resulted from repairs to broken necks.  I'm not disputing the idea of intentional lengthening for cellos, just that I've never seen it discussed.

[jacobsaunders]

2^nd. guessing whatever repairs might have happened since an instrument was built is a hopeless way to try to authenticate an instrument. One may see this often with the Ebay mishpocha, who draw nonsensical conclusions due to a neck having been grafted or not. One should look at the instrument as if it hadn't been altered, and have the disipline to ignore later changes. In this case the pictures are insufficent.

 

 

[Conor Russell]

I cut my teeth and paid my way through college grafting heads. I was cheap as chips, £30 a joint, and I did hundreds. So if my employer was selling the most ordinary trade fiddle and it had the slightest fault in the neck, it got a new one. 

Neck grafts mean nothing when it comes to dating an instrument.

Nice cello.

[Richf]

Amen to that, Conor.  But there is a useful generalization that violin neck lengths of the baroque era were shorter than those of today, right?  I was wondering if the same could be said for cellos.  I'm guessing not, for the reason that early cello sizes varied so much that any generalization of baroque cello neck length would not be possible.  (That's a question, not an opinion.)

[PhilipKT]

 I’d really like to see closer photos. From here, the wood looks lovely. 

I guess a look inside revealed nothing?

Im interested in whether the Krenz Wolf eliminator(it looks like a Krenz) Successfully dealt with the wolf?

[cellopera]

8 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

 I’d really like to see closer photos. From here, the wood looks lovely. 

I guess a look inside revealed nothing?

Im interested in whether the Krenz Wolf eliminator(it looks like a Krenz) Successfully dealt with the wolf?

You can zoom in quite a lot on those photos, and if still not satisfied, I could send you higher quality ones. It didn’t work to upload those because of the large size of the files. This cello has an enormous sound that comes together with an equally enormous wolf tone. The Krenz was the only wolf eliminator that came close to successfully control the beast, although not with complete success.

[PhilipKT]

On 10/26/2018 at 4:07 AM, cellopera said:

You can zoom in quite a lot on those photos, and if still not satisfied

 I  was asking whether you had had a look inside the instrument. 

Generally, It’s not necessary to use large files, just close-ups. The detail of the corner, of the F-hole, scroll, etc.

 The guys who are experts at evaluating might request specific areas.

 

[ClefLover]

Beautiful cello! Any chance you can make a short sound clip? I’m dying to hear it!

[cellopera]

23 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

 I  was asking whether you had had a look inside the instrument. 

Generally, It’s not necessary to use large files, just close-ups. The detail of the corner, of the F-hole, scroll, etc.

 The guys who are experts at evaluating might request specific areas.

 

I don’t have any photos from the inside of the instrument, but I can assure you that there are no visible markings. I will make some more close-up photos in the next days and add them here.

[cellopera]

14 hours ago, ClefLover said:

Beautiful cello! Any chance you can make a short sound clip? I’m dying to hear it!

You can hear the cello in this private video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NHbExYRYqE

Enjoy!

Edited October 29, 2018 by cellopera

[ClefLover]

8 hours ago, cellopera said:

You can hear the cello in this private video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NHbExYRYqE

Enjoy!

I cannot get this link to work...

[PhilipKT]

10 hours ago, cellopera said:

You can hear the cello in this private video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NHbExYRYqE

Enjoy!

Doesn’t work

[Nick Allen]

Hazel.

Fichte.

[cellopera]

4 hours ago, ClefLover said:

I cannot get this link to work...

Try again: 

 

[ClefLover]

20 hours ago, cellopera said:

Try again: 

 

Mmmm... great playing!  Love Schumann.  Cello sounds sweet, nice projection, seems to have plenty of response too.  Can’t really judge the lower register due to the piece selection.  By the way, it would be okay to miss a note or two

[PhilipKT]

Very nice playing. What bow are you using?

[cellopera]

1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

Very nice playing. What bow are you using?

I am using a very nice modern bow by Josef Gabriel.

[Ken_N]

I clicked on the photo to the front to see the bear claw closer, and then noticed the black button.  

What in the world is that for?

OK , lazy me.  A wolf suppressor.  Haven't found a wolf yet.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Ken_N
added my answer

[ClefLover]

Only because this is a wonderful performance do I ask this question: if you could record this performance again, would you do anything differently, stylistically?

[cellopera]

On 11/1/2018 at 8:24 PM, ClefLover said:

Only because this is a wonderful performance do I ask this question: if you could record this performance again, would you do anything differently, stylistically?

Good question! There are so many things that I would change... most certainly by creating a less linear phrasing in the Adagio, and adding a faster and more expressive vibrato.

Edited November 3, 2018 by cellopera

[martin swan]

On 10/25/2018 at 9:51 PM, Richf said:

 But there is a useful generalization that violin neck lengths of the baroque era were shorter than those of today, right?  

I don’t think this is true - the unmodernised necks we know are no shorter. Roger Hargrave argues very persuasively that neck grafts came about as restorers realised the superiority of mortised rather than nailed top blocks.

So cello necks have been replaced just as much - the graft line tends to be less obvious because of the offset pegbox cheeks.