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Brad Dorsey

Clamping Broken Peg Box

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We all are familiar with the dreaded crack through the A string hole of the violin peg box.  I have glued many of these and reinforced them with bushings.  But yesterday, for the first time, I glued a peg box back together that was completely broken into two pieces along the grain through the A peg hole.  The clamping system that I devised is shown in these pictures:

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To keep the counterparts from slipping out of position the lower one hooks around the end of the volute and the upper one has a tongue that fits between the peg box walls and bears on the D peg.  They are both made from basswood and lined with plastic sheeting so they don't become glued to the instrument.  They seem to have accomplished their purpose, which is to orient the clamping force perpendicular to the line of the break.

Since I've never seen any other way to clamp this type of break, I'm wondering how other people out there do it.

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29 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

 I'm wondering how other people out there do it.

I admire your ingenuity. I must admit, I have always found such (complicated) gigs invariably finish up geting the break back together crooked somewhere. I pefer (shock horror) to warm the glue surface with a hair dryer, then to glue it, and then hold the whole thing together with my fingers for some 20 seconds (one elephant, two elephants…), and then put it away somewhere until tomorrow.

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The important things with any crack is to apply the force parallel to the crack with the force being centered in the middle of the crack. This will allow the least amount of clamping pressure to glue it. 

 

This is a rig I designed to do the job. It will glue the pegbox as well as the volute.

 

I have this one for violin/viola and also one that will do cello /bass. 

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42 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

...I pefer...to...hold the whole thing together with my fingers for some 20 seconds...

I considered doing it like that, but is 20 seconds really long enough?  I was thinking I might have to hold it for 10 minutes.

42 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

...I have always found such (complicated) gigs invariably finish up geting the break back together crooked somewhere....

I worried about that happening, but it came out perfectly aligned.

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24 minutes ago, barnesviolins said:

The important things with any crack is to apply the force parallel to the crack...

You mean perpendicular to the crack.  Your pictures show some interesting ideas.

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40 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

 I pefer (shock horror) to warm the glue surface with a hair dryer, then to glue it, and then hold the whole thing together with my fingers 

Me too.  Ain't no need for them fancy schmancy fixtures and clamps.  I ain't had not problem without them.

181023.JPG.e7bf5445b958b16f6cef5f4c13379854.JPG

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But seriously, here's a scroll I dropped on the concrete floor when carving, re-assembled with the Saunders method.  It was cracked; I had to complete the break to glue it up right.

776887545_16scroll.jpg.9f20679575c616bbd9ddf54978124d35.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

Me too.  Ain't no need for them fancy schmancy fixtures and clamps.  I ain't had not problem without them.

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Haha, very funny;)

 

I held this one on with my fingers and counted to twenty too

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/340982-scroll-eye-question/&do=findComment&comment=816396

 

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Okay - I must ask:

If Jacob can do this repair with only the aid of elephants, why do others consider a jig necessary?

Now - I haven't glued any pegboxes (although I have a repaired one), but I recently glued the sole back on hubby's favourite shoe. I used a method similar to Jacob's, except I held it for a whole minute - er, using a timer.

The shoe is holding up - and I imagine the pressures it endures are at least in the ballpark of a pegbox repair.

No? :o

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16 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

You mean perpendicular to the crack.  Your pictures show some interesting ideas.

It's a BOTH, AND.....

If the force is not parallel, then the crack can be closed at one end and open at the other. I want to deliver the force evenly across the entire crack surface.  But of course it has to drive the two surfaces together.

So I should have said perpendicularly even?...

:rolleyes:

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30 minutes ago, Rue said:

Okay - I must ask:

If Jacob can do this repair with only the aid of elephants, why do others consider a jig necessary?

Now - I haven't glued any pegboxes (although I have a repaired one), but I recently glued the sole back on hubby's favourite shoe. I used a method similar to Jacob's, except I held it for a whole minute - er, using a timer.

The shoe is holding up - and I imagine the pressures it endures are at least in the ballpark of a pegbox repair.

No? :o

Each to his own, I think. I don't like peg cutters with lots of knobs on either:)

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I'll assume these repairs are followed up by cheek patches? I glued one up using Jacob's method recently, and put it away awaiting  the cheeks.

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Quote

Each to his own, I think. I don't like peg cutters with lots of knobs on either:)

Okay then!  If that's the answer - I can accept it.  I also understand the desire/satisfaction to over-engineer certain things...better safe than sorry.

I guess what I don't quite understand is the thought process that brings one to conclude that over-engineering must be the best option.  It has to be more complicated than merely 'better safe than sorry'.

BTW...I've also tried to clamp wood bits (ie. table legs) together, and had the pieces slip, unnoticed.  Then you end up with a really poor repair, even though you did it 'right'.  So, over-engineering can also be a mistake.  In my case it didn't matter.  No one can see the repair, and it's holding...but *ew*...

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33 minutes ago, luthier said:

I'll assume these repairs are followed up by cheek patches? 

Not the one I posted, and no bushings, either.  It has been fine for over 4 years so far.  Well-glued joints should be stronger than the wood.

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3 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

. I pefer (shock horror) to warm the glue surface with a hair dryer, then to glue it, and then hold the whole thing together with my fingers for some 20 seconds (one elephant, two elephants…), and then put it away somewhere until tomorrow.

I'm supporting this method, at other occasions, too, with some rubber bands. Usually I try to press everything together as long as I'm able (or till the hands are becoming blue), but now I'm relieved that ten elephants are enough to do the job.:rolleyes:

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14 minutes ago, Blank face said:

I'm supporting this method, at other occasions, too, with some rubber bands. Usually I try to press everything together as long as I'm able (or till the hands are becoming blue), but now I'm relieved that ten elephants are enough to do the job.:rolleyes:

Twenty elephants, and leave it overnight!

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5 hours ago, barnesviolins said:

The important things with any crack is to apply the force parallel to the crack with the force being centered in the middle of the crack. This will allow the least amount of clamping pressure to glue it. 

 

This is a rig I designed to do the job. It will glue the pegbox as well as the volute.

 

I have this one for violin/viola and also one that will do cello /bass. 

Brilliant!  We will have one by the end of the week.

Jerry

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On 10/23/2018 at 10:56 AM, Juan Tavira said:

Only glue in this case? No other reinforcements? Will it withstand the string tension?

J

In this case, I use Jerry’s peg ringer to reinforce the Peg home. 

 

Dorian

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On 10/23/2018 at 12:53 PM, Jerry Pasewicz said:

Brilliant!  We will have one by the end of the week.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry!

 

after doing a lot of these for many years and struggling with the success, I sat down and thought it through and came up with this. Most of my ideas have changes and alterations to improve their success. This one surprisingly is still an original. 

 

I understand and the concept of “overengineering”. I believe the simplest process is the best process. I also believe if you have to do things more than a few times, it’s best to make a repeatable process that has the range of use on varying problems. 

 

I dont believe this jig is over engineered. It was made to allow for different size scrolls and different break locations. After using it a couple of times, it becomes very simple to use.

 

I do this repair pair a dozen times a year. So it is a time saver. And time is money.  

 

Thanks for the critiques!

 

Dorian

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On 10/23/2018 at 1:53 PM, Jerry Pasewicz said:

Brilliant!  We will have one by the end of the week.

Jerry

Yeah, that is a great set-up. Very clever. It reminds me of something Alberti would come up with.

I too will have one soon. Congrats!

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On 10/23/2018 at 6:44 AM, barnesviolins said:

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This is really an elegant design.

Out of my concern that I would not always have the perfect place to clamp and might wish for a bit more movement and choice I probably would do this,,,,

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Have you ever wished just a bit, that the clamp was a little more one way or another, or an I overthinking again?

None the less this is an Excellent Jig, I do love good jigs,,, and waltzes are fine also.

Thanks for showing this.

Evan

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