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Upscale Roth violin

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Just had my violin looked at and he noted it was the equivalent of an upscale Roth violin.  I should have asked before I left for a price but didn’t.  Anyone have a ballpark value?

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I have a watch that I was told has the equivalent value of an upscale Rolex.

What does that mean, if anything, and how could anyone hope to provide information without more information.

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2 hours ago, Pearl0890 said:

Just had my violin looked at and he noted it was the equivalent of an upscale Roth violin.  I should have asked before I left for a price but didn’t.  Anyone have a ballpark value?

Post photos. Follow the guide provided here as to what pictures do you take, and share lots of photos, and you might be able to get an answer

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If an upscale Roth has all the proper identifiers and is in pristine condition, it can easily sell for $10,000. To say that it’s an equivalent of a Roth could mean several things. It could refer to its workmanship and overall appearance, or it could mean that it was made in the same workshop as a particular model. It could also refer to someone’s opinion about its appearance or tone, which is less tangible and very difficult to explain objectively.

Pictures are the best way to start unpacking that statement. 

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4 hours ago, Pearl0890 said:

Just had my violin looked at and he noted it was the equivalent of an upscale Roth violin.

What does "the equivalent of" an overpriced 1920's or later Saxon trade fiddle with a cutesy numbered label, and made on an inside mold, mean?  That it looks like a Roth, only it's made in China?  That it's a current East European product as offered by some of the members here?  That it's a Stentor?  That it's the sorriest thing ever made in Cremona?   Oooooo.....we can have great fun with this situation.  :ph34r:;):lol:

Photographs would be much appreciated.  Maybe someone here can solve this mystery.   My sight-unseen guess is that you've got a very well-made post-1920's Markneukirchen instrument, which isn't, however, labeled "Roth".  How does it sound?  :)

 

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You all are to funny!  Definitely not a Chinese or factory instrument.  Here are some pics

 

its labelled an Alfredo Contino but it’s not Italian. 

1778999B-1DFE-4110-B40B-178E42E19CAC.jpeg

1891C096-3F91-4473-99FF-F52D78C7AAF9.jpeg

2ECACDF3-E63C-4D72-9642-674CF4CD4A7B.jpeg

D11836B5-ED3B-4BE4-936F-17527D475D3E.jpeg

169FC90D-3ADD-4BE1-AE1A-FEBEC940871B.jpeg

BD01FDFA-7F3D-4F73-9607-BF48A69D2536.jpeg

F3C5E2A4-2AC3-4158-AEAC-F19AF23EE340.jpeg

77A80723-BE32-4BFC-96F0-1F5258CB9C49.jpeg

F4AD2343-8953-4B41-BBF1-62B727EABC5F.jpeg

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I've tried sending Pearl a PM, just to see if that gets around the approval process.  If so, I'll relay stuff.  If not, we've lost nothing.  BTW, my amusement is directed at our colleague who decided to play Delphic Oracle, not at the OP. :)

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14 hours ago, Pearl0890 said:

I should have asked before I left for a price but didn’t.

Regardless of what it was worth he would have low balled it in case you wanted to sell it.  In case you wanted to sell it ten years from now even.

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Very positive and he also knew I had no intention on selling it.  I was only wanting an opinion cause I love this violin.  It plays so beautifully!

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I heard from Pearl, who sent me some very large photos.  I selected 7 of them, and reproduce them below, using Photoshop "Save for Web" at a 30% reduction.  I've already given the OP my impressions by PM.  Now, without further comment, let's see what others have to say.

Pearlpic001.thumb.jpg.a4054899901a1fa289ba56b48084b241.jpgPearlpic002.thumb.jpg.4fc38fff98666664874954d6deb1d73f.jpgPearlpic003.thumb.jpg.e5bac5a4c38b590bb16cc3263246f107.jpgPearlpic004.thumb.jpg.dc0faa464d3047fa0bb12cf01e64f330.jpgPearlpic005.thumb.jpg.a09df0f6b6f3512c9110de324fc8d24a.jpgPearlpic006.thumb.jpg.2d697f3e0469440fa21f7375b6e192af.jpgPearlpic007.thumb.jpg.4f39884e3cea96b06392bc430e5c729d.jpg

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IMO, German trade violin, not up to the quality of a typical Roth, possibly some finish issues. Maybe tonally similar to a Roth.

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What sets it aside from an "upscale Roth" would be the varnish - which is either replaced or a rather dirty plain varnish - and the slightly tubby arching. The channeling seems quite hurried, and the pseudo-pins in the back are something I associate with lower level stuff. And why is there some kind of black stain in the f-hole fluting?

 

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14 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Looks like "the usual"

IMHO, not entirely.  The scroll is fluted well past "6 o'clock", there's no "delta", and the rib corners have clearance from the plate corner edges.  The pegbox edges are rounded rather than square.  I'd say it's 1920's or later, and of above average quality, on those grounds. 

OTOH, the in-your-face refinishing is regrettable.  It looks to me like somebody used too wide a scraper with little control, and great enthusiasm, followed by a varnish job of equal quality.  :rolleyes:

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7 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

IMHO, not entirely.  The scroll is fluted well past "6 o'clock", there's no "delta", and the rib corners have clearance from the plate corner edges.  The pegbox edges are rounded rather than square.  I'd say it's 1920's or later, and of above average quality, on those grounds. 

 

I think this would just point to MK of the "Roth era" rather than earlier - doesn't really remove it from the category of "the usual".

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22 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I think this would just point to MK of the "Roth era" rather than earlier - doesn't really remove it from the category of "the usual".

OK, understood, but I consider "the usual" to refer to the classic 1870-1920 Markie with pronounced Vogtland features.  When they begin playing at being mainstream, I begin referring to "German student violins/fiddles", e.g., Scherl & Roth. :)

I keep a couple of the latter as "type specimens", but don't generally fish in those highly polluted waters.  Too many of these about....

image.png.f31c6e3b619c6eef634246d975dd6cc9.png

:lol:

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Looks like a grafted scroll, maybe originally a "Carlo Micelli" (not as good as a Roth) or something like that, before the varnish was messed up

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The only thing I noticed was that it appeared to be revarnished( or perhaps stripped and NOT revarnished), the peg holes have been bushed but the wood itself looks good.

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27 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

The rib miters look to me like they were just filed back.

Yup, on a second glance, I feel you're right.  This violin has been "improved" to a point that I'm not certain of what's going on here, but a later scroll added to a circa 1900 Markie is not impossible.  :unsure:

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