About violin bridge tuning


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11 hours ago, lousyplayer said:

May i know how to mellow down the sound if its a bit harsh ?? Thanks first

Probably a softer bridge :lol:

Nah, i'm just about as green as you are, but from what i read i can try several things:

- different strings

- soundpost adjustment

- adjust afterlength

- bridge tuning (heart, kidneys)

- eventually if the easy things dont work maybe take the top off and thin it.. M5 was high to begin with at 365Hz

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8 hours ago, Emilg said:

Probably a softer bridge :lol:

Nah, i'm just about as green as you are, but from what i read i can try several things:

- different strings

- soundpost adjustment

- adjust afterlength

- bridge tuning (heart, kidneys)

- eventually if the easy things dont work maybe take the top off and thin it.. M5 was high to begin with at 365Hz

My violin treble (especially A) string is more "prominent" than Bass string, i had a feeling it might actually the sound post problem ^_^

So where should i start ? Move the soundpost closer to bass bar direction ?? ^_^

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1 hour ago, lousyplayer said:

My violin treble (especially A) string is more "prominent" than Bass string, i had a feeling it might actually the sound post problem ^_^

So where should i start ? Move the soundpost closer to bass bar direction ?? ^_^

moving the SP a bit west could help .. this lowers the tension on the top favouring the bass

it is advised to lower the string tension before moving and work in tiny steps

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10 hours ago, Emilg said:

moving the SP a bit west could help .. this lowers the tension on the top favouring the bass

it is advised to lower the string tension before moving and work in tiny steps

Yeah thanks for the advise .. i now trying to accurately placing the soundpost (6mm) right at the middle under the bridge treble foot.

By the way i notice my tailpiece go sideway to the bass side & treble side like sink closer to the top plate ... i wonder if this has anything to do with my much brighter treble tone :rolleyes:

IMG_100%.jpg

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Alright here is the update of my treble especially A much more brighter or prominent issue update.

1. I try my best to set the soundpost 1/2 of the soundpost diameter away from bridge & set it as center at the bridge's treble foot as possible.

2. I shorten my afterlength from 54.5+- to 50+-mm. I guess since my violin's fingerboard projection only 24~5mm so scale down the afterlength accordingly might be a good idea :lol:

And the result ... A & E still a little bit say 10% "highlight" but not that harsh or sharp instead whole thing go rounder & firm (or fat ?) type of tone.

Q1. I feel strongest vibration playing open A, 10%+- & less focus vibration play open G but very less in open D. Any idea why this happen ??

Q2. Is it true if the string sit more than 1/3 inside the groove then it will affect the vibration in a bad way ??

Q3. Normally what thickness of soundpost is recommended ?? And why ??

Thanks first.

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3 hours ago, lousyplayer said:

 

By the way i notice my tailpiece go sideway to the bass side & treble side like sink closer to the top plate ... i wonder if this has anything to do with my much brighter treble tone :rolleyes:

 

the tailpiece looks to be in the right place, maybe it's lowered at the E string because of the finetuner?

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20 minutes ago, Emilg said:

the tailpiece looks to be in the right place, maybe it's lowered at the E string because of the finetuner?

Yeah i guess the much shorter afterlength for E having different tension compare to other string make the E side sink compare to G side. (E side 12mm / G side 15mm measure from top plate).

I wonder if this so unbalance tension affect the tone of the violin.

Edit: On second thought i think this might be unavoidable consider the different bridge height between G to E ??

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17 hours ago, lousyplayer said:

My violin treble (especially A) string is more "prominent" than Bass string, i had a feeling it might actually the sound post problem ^_^

So where should i start ? Move the soundpost closer to bass bar direction ?? ^_^

 

4 hours ago, lousyplayer said:

Yeah thanks for the advise .. i now trying to accurately placing the soundpost (6mm) right at the middle under the bridge treble foot.

By the way i notice my tailpiece go sideway to the bass side & treble side like sink closer to the top plate ... i wonder if this has anything to do with my much brighter treble tone :rolleyes:

IMG_100%.jpg

You need a better violin. I can see from that photo that the spruce is very dense because of the very high ratio of latewood (dark grain) to earlywood. This gives a screechy tone.

However narrow latewood is not always a sign that the tone won't be screecy, because some instruments have compression wood from the sunny side of a tree which lean towards the light.  You can't tell this by looking, only by playing, but no amount of bridge tuning will make them sound good.

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2 hours ago, lousyplayer said:

Yeah i guess the much shorter afterlength for E having different tension compare to other string make the E side sink compare to G side. (E side 12mm / G side 15mm measure from top plate).

I wonder if this so unbalance tension affect the tone of the violin.

Edit: On second thought i think this might be unavoidable consider the different bridge height between G to E ??

I dont think the afterlength affects the string tension. The SP position will have a bigger influence than the string height difference, which is unavoidable anyway as you say..

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5 hours ago, lousyplayer said:

Why horse ?? I believe human urine is much more convenient to get :P

Not all urine is created equal.

Horses eat mainly grasses - with some broadleaves and grains.

Humans eat everything - including meat.

Different chemistry.

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1 hour ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

So maybe free range vegan vegetarian human urine?

Actually - that would be interesting.  To see if vegan urine has a similar chemistry to horse urine.  However, I suspect the more varied diet of vegans would still result in a different output.  I don't think horses eat a lot of kale...or tomatoes...or broccoli...

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4 hours ago, Emilg said:

I dont think the afterlength affects the string tension. The SP position will have a bigger influence than the string height difference, which is unavoidable anyway as you say..

Yeah guess so. I re-do it a few time testing between 50-54mm and now settle at 51mm, sound from 52mm onward feel bad to me ^_^ And i broke the A string in the process -_-

2 hours ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

So maybe free range vegan vegetarian human urine?

Haha actually i thinking the same too. I dont eat meat, lets see if china bridge + my urine > Aubert or Despair or even Milo Stamm :P

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3 hours ago, Rue said:

Not all urine is created equal.

Horses eat mainly grasses - with some broadleaves and grains.

Humans eat everything - including meat.

Different chemistry.

I have a vegan next door. What wording should I use to ask her for a contribution, so I don't end up in jail? :D

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1 hour ago, Craigers said:

Are you supposed to take it off the instrument before giving the bridge the treatment?

 

Well, if it's VIOLA just take care the liquid will flow nicely into the f holes and you can then flush it all together....

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String tension is unaffected by after length when a violin is in-tune. It is just a function of the length of the string from nut to bridge.

If you are shifting the sound post closer to the f-hole,  then you risk stretching the plates and making them crack. A shift of more than a mm or two might safely be done by cutting a new, shorter sound post. Tonal changes caused by jamming a sound post towards the f-hole are due to the plate stretch changing the plate frequencies.

The high fine tuner is causing then E side of the fine tuner to sing lower than the G side. The after lengths want to form a straight line from the bridge to the saddle. So the tail piece has to sink a bit until all the forces balance enough to stop it.

Urine is just a silly way of coloring the wood. Dilute a nice amber shellac with alcohol and rub on a few thin coats for a rich finish that accents the grain and figuring. 

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12 hours ago, Rue said:

Actually - that would be interesting.  To see if vegan urine has a similar chemistry to horse urine.  However, I suspect the more varied diet of vegans would still result in a different output.  I don't think horses eat a lot of kale...or tomatoes...or broccoli...

Avoid Borsch eaters, unless you like a pink bridge.:ph34r:

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2 hours ago, ctanzio said:

String tension is unaffected by after length when a violin is in-tune. It is just a function of the length of the string from nut to bridge.

If you are shifting the sound post closer to the f-hole,  then you risk stretching the plates and making them crack. A shift of more than a mm or two might safely be done by cutting a new, shorter sound post. Tonal changes caused by jamming a sound post towards the f-hole are due to the plate stretch changing the plate frequencies.

The high fine tuner is causing then E side of the fine tuner to sing lower than the G side. The after lengths want to form a straight line from the bridge to the saddle. So the tail piece has to sink a bit until all the forces balance enough to stop it.

Yeah i did move the sound post like 1mm closer to the east but i know i should shorten it first. I might try to use thicker sound post next time to see how it affect the tone.

By the way plate frequencies type of thing is a little bit too complicated for me. I dont even know where to start if i wanna explore about it.

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18 hours ago, Rue said:

Not all urine is created equal.

Horses eat mainly grasses - with some broadleaves and grains.

Humans eat everything - including meat.

Different chemistry.

I think what they were after is the yellow colour of bilirubin breakdown products. Horse should be as good as any, as this arises from haemoglobin breakdown, and not any specific food ingredients.

Whether Aubert still does this I don't know. It is my impression that most of the Chinese bridges sold in a bundle are just as good. Hardness of wood is all that is needed.

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