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JacksonMaberry

Warchal 'Timbre' Strings

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5 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

Anyone tried them yet? I've loved almost everything of theirs I've tried, and I'm very curious about these. Thanks @Bohdan Warchalfor continuing to develop interesting products.

I have bought a set of Timbre, but i'm saving it for #6.. sofar i have been using Karneol and Amber, i think they are pretty good also.

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Mr. Warchal,

I see you are online, which of your strings would be closest to Evah Pirazzi gold? I like EPG strings, but they are too expensive and have a short top prerformance window.

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6 minutes ago, Jeff Jetson said:

I would like to try these strings but have read on the other violin site that only local dealers would be allowed to carry them and I have not seen them for sale yet.

you can order them direct from the Warchal webshop, all first sets are 50% off so you can try different strings

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55 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

I'd go for brilliants. It will be less of a shock, moving from steel strings.

How would the C and G for the Brilliant compare to the Tungsten in gauge and overall playability?

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I won't comment on gauge, not having both strings to hand and calipers at the ready. My main point is that most cellists don't have any experience playing on synthetic strings, which feel very very different from metal core strings under the bow. Switching to synthetic cello strings ideally will involve an adjustment to setup, also. 

In my opinion, it's worth doing. It encourages the development of a more nuanced bow technique and produces a sound richer in overtones. I really dislike steel cello strings, but they have their use, namely to overcome traditional balance issues. They're loud.

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1 hour ago, JacksonMaberry said:

I won't comment on gauge, not having both strings to hand and calipers at the ready. My main point is that most cellists don't have any experience playing on synthetic strings, which feel very very different from metal core strings under the bow. Switching to synthetic cello strings ideally will involve an adjustment to setup, also. 

In my opinion, it's worth doing. It encourages the development of a more nuanced bow technique and produces a sound richer in overtones. I really dislike steel cello strings, but they have their use, namely to overcome traditional balance issues. They're loud.

Great info, thank you.  Due to their lower tension, what setup changes do you suggest?  Bridge height?  After length changes?

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I have timbres on right now.   My instrument is very resonant and projects very well.  I started with dominants and hated the “sandy” sound I’d get with them. I switched to tonicas as my baseline string.  The timbres are well made.  They project well and are a bright string on my violin.  I don’t like the sound and feel in high positions on the G string, and the non whistling spiral E is taking some getting used to.  

I’ve had them on for three weeks and they sound like they did on day 2, which is promising for longevity.  Honestly if the G string mellows out I’ll be happy.  

I think they’d really shine on a darker and more mellow violin.  Mine has a huge projection and the timbres give it a little too much edge.  Might be great in a soloist situation but I’m not there.  

Warchal has been a joy to do business with and I’m impressed with their quality.   

 

Dimitri

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Dimitri,

Always best done to have your setup adjusted when changing string labels. Different down force, whether more or less, is going to require a very slightly, yet significant, adjustment to bridge and soundpost position. Depending on the variance in string diameter, some adjustment to string grooves will also factor in. 

 

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I want the Chinese to make an equivalent to Dominants that costs $5 a set.  I don't even care if they use stolen software, for just this one thing.  And I think they should be called Joy Luck Violin Strings.  If it takes a hacked up communist version of Google to do it, more power to them.  For just this one thing.

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11 hours ago, ClefLover said:

How would the C and G for the Brilliant compare to the Tungsten in gauge and overall playability?

Just my opinion, but they would compare unfavorably. These strings have a torsion problem, much worse than modern gut strings, which means they need to be bowed with very little weight and a lot of speed. Spiccato and soutillee are almost impossible, long, loud bowing too. I am a professional baroque cello player, and the sound and playability of the lower two brilliant strings have very little to do with gut (which is what ppl usually are looking for when trying synthetic strings) I quite like the upper two strings, but don't use them as I need more power than they deliver. 

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I ordered a set during their sale but haven't put them on yet, but I think their strings are great. I had a set of dominants put on a violin that I had a setup done on (shop had very limited and high priced options) and really don't like them.

My only problem with Warchal is that they send the strings so I have to sign for them and if I miss the postman I have to drive 15 miles one way to the postal facility to pick them up.

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8 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

I want the Chinese to make an equivalent to Dominants that costs $5 a set.  I don't even care if they use stolen software, for just this one thing.  And I think they should be called Joy Luck Violin Strings.  If it takes a hacked up communist version of Google to do it, more power to them.  For just this one thing.

Bill,

Suggesting stealing intellectual property is a bad joke. China is ripping off the West big time. I like cheap things but not at the price of hurting our inventors. In fact, China deserves a big kick in the ass for their dishonesty..

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2 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

The U.S. and China have an interesting relationship.

I can read between the lines on that one, but since when is the moral equivalent of a commercial transaction taking place through a hole in a wall a "relationship"? :o:ph34r:

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On 9/23/2018 at 4:58 PM, Bill Merkel said:

I want the Chinese to make an equivalent to Dominants that costs $5 a set.  I don't even care if they use stolen software, for just this one thing.  And I think they should be called Joy Luck Violin Strings.  If it takes a hacked up communist version of Google to do it, more power to them.  For just this one thing.

Sadly, this has already been done.  Search for "DOMS".  Not quite $5 per set but close.  I'm actually surprised that they are still available on ebay in the USA, given the sensitivity Thomastik seems to have about copyright.

Court trial between Warchal and Thomastik

By fiddler59,  December 25, 2013 in The Pegbox

But I am not sure whether or not Dominants are still under copyright?  They were apparently released in 1970. My understanding was that patents offer protection from copying for a limited duration, for the benefit of the inventor, but at the end of this time the invention is available to society in general.  If that is the case, (and I don't know whether or not it is in this case) then I can't see an ethical problem with cheap copies.

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On 9/23/2018 at 8:13 AM, Michael_Molnar said:

Bill,

Suggesting stealing intellectual property is a bad joke. China is ripping off the West big time. I like cheap things but not at the price of hurting our inventors. In fact, China deserves a big kick in the ass for their dishonesty..

Second Michael's thoughts.  Apparently Bill wasn't kidding.   Why would he suggest such a thing and apparently betray even his own principles? ("just this one thing")  I can't begin to state what a pervasive problem is Chinese theft of IP (intellectual property).  Dominants may be overpriced, and I don't particularly like them, but that's still no excuse to support and purchase counterfeit items.  

Really, it's a huge problem on Amazon.  As an LA Times article pointed out, it's actually to Amazon's benefit to have counterfeit products that Amazon shuts down only after someone complains.  http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-amazon-counterfeits-20180928-story.html

It's incredibly unfair to smaller merchants.  And just because someone might want cheap strings, is no reason to proclaim that someone should copy your favorite and sell it for throw away pricing. Thomastik deserves some remuneration for having conceived the strings in the first place.  The way to force Thomastik to lower prices is not by encouraging counterfeits but by purchasing Dominant's competitors.  If you want a larger discount, become a dealer and sell oodles of them.  

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21 hours ago, pjham said:

Sadly, this has already been done.  Search for "DOMS".  Not quite $5 per set but close.  I'm actually surprised that they are still available on ebay in the USA, given the sensitivity Thomastik seems to have about copyright.

Court trial between Warchal and Thomastik

By fiddler59,  December 25, 2013 in The Pegbox

But I am not sure whether or not Dominants are still under copyright?  They were apparently released in 1970. My understanding was that patents offer protection from copying for a limited duration, for the benefit of the inventor, but at the end of this time the invention is available to society in general.  If that is the case, (and I don't know whether or not it is in this case) then I can't see an ethical problem with cheap copies.

Patents protect ideas (inventions, methods, etc.) these have terms which expire. It would take some research to figure out which patents thomastik currently owns and protects and when they expire. Typically companies will continue to make little tweaks here and there and file new patents and always have currently protected patents. So if thomastic owns a valid enforceable patent that covers the construction method or system that it uses to produce strings, in theory DOMS could be violating it, and that is baseless speculation without anything more at this stage.

Copyright protects creativity. Drawings, recordings, etc. so not much in this discussion is protected by copyright. The design of the dominant logo would be protected by copyright (and trademark). Copyright eventually expires but it’s a long time.

Trademark protects the identity of a source of products or services. Basically the brand associated with goods and services sold under it. Trademarks, if maintained, can last forever. Here, Dominant is the trademark at issue, and DOMS or whatever seems like a clear violation of trademark.

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Then there are Trade Secrets.  These are the IP that one might use to make the strings, and copying that is unethical.  Using a patent when it expires is different. For strings, one would have to figure out how all the pieces came together to "clone" the strings.  If one could do that - reverse engineering - without access to proprietary information and without violating current patents, then those strings would be legal and ethical.

Of course, that doesn't mean that a dominant company in the field would not sue a competitor that could not afford a costly legal fight, in an attempt to keep said competitor off the market.  (pun intentional) Or even "legally" keep a competitor off the market via an agreement. See the drug fight over Ciprofloxacin between Bayer and Barr (later bought by Teva) for example.  Such agreements have been held to be illegal throughout the EU, and more recently by the US Supreme Court. 

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