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On 9/13/2018 at 9:57 AM, jacobsaunders said:

There must also be a Borstendorf somewhere there, although I haven't found it yet.

 

Just curious, why are you sure it's not the one in Saxony, in the Erzgebirge area? 

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Since Jacob wrote "somewhere there", I guess he meant the area of and around Silesia. For us Europeans a four hours drive is very far away, and also the 55 miles between Glatz and Borsov are hardly "somewhere there". But I am also curious why you are looking for it Jacob. According Henley the Goethel maker family is from the saxon Borstendorf.

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41 minutes ago, match said:

Since Jacob wrote "somewhere there", I guess he meant the area of and around Silesia. For us Europeans a four hours drive is very far away, and also the 55 miles between Glatz and Borsov are hardly "somewhere there". But I am also curious why you are looking for it Jacob. According Henley the Goethel maker family is from the saxon Borstendorf.

I was thinking of a Johann Traugott Morsch I had once upon a time, which I had mentally lumped under the Glatzer 

2 hours ago, match said:

Just changed the files.

Thanks, very interesting, once one has got past the rhapsodies about wood. All together he counts 23 violin makers there (in Grafschaft Glatz). Even BF’s Cajetan Weiss gets a  mention

1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

Just curious, why are you sure it's not the one in Saxony, in the Erzgebirge area? 

Because the violin would look Saxon if it were from there

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23 hours ago, Blank face said:

Thank you for recalling this most highly interesting topic! (We mentioned it from time to time before)

For comparison are here some photos of a violin by Vincenz Beck, prob. Johann Georg's son (same name with different spelling) and by Cajetan Weiss (I've got the photo of the front only), a widely unknown maker from this region. I found him mentioned as from Kislingswalde (as written on the label), a different town, but see no reason to doubt the signature.

Both are demonstratting in my eyes the countinuity and idiosyncracy of the local models and traditions.

The V. Beck was constructed in all aspects like Jacob described, the f nicks have a distinctive unaltered form. It has a large body size of 365 mm, I'm assuming that this is typical for the whole school.

It shouldn't be suspected that instruments of this origin were considered of low value. I got mine with a nice Knopf bow in a former surely valuable, but unfortunately very rotten leather scabbard with a document indicating that it was once before the property of a certain "Herrn von Unruh, Kgl. Music Dirigent" (musical conductor of the king).

 

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Is this Jacob Weiss related?

https://www.bromptons.co/auction/25-june-2018/lots/95-an-austrian-violin-probably-by-jacob-weiss-salzburg-1777.html

This was an interesting violin.

 

 

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I was thinking of a Johann Traugott Morsch I had once upon a time, which I had mentally lumped under the Glatzer 

Rene Vannes mentions Johann Traugott Mosch (sic) on page 249:

Mosch Johann Traugott. Son of the miller Johann M. Born and baptized in Borstendorf (Saxony), on 9.9.1736. Married Christiane Lisnner on  23.10.1770, from whom he had a son and six daughters. He died 45 years old, on 30.7.1781. Mosch was first a gardener and started violinmaking as an amateur. The Kinsky catalog, where we obtained this information, mentions a viola pomposa (No. 921) with a yellow-brown varnish, bearing a printed label without date: Johann Traugott Mosch. / machte mich in Borstendorf / bey Augusteburg

That would be the Borstendorf VdA mentioned in Saxony. As a self taught maker his instruments might have an unsaxy look :-)

 

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12 hours ago, uguntde said:

There aren't much informations available about the Kislingswalde Weiss family, so this question can't be answered easily. Weiss (White) is a very common name.

The Brompton's instrument reminds me more of a Vogtländer than an Austrian instrument (though this is something Jacob should know more about), so I'm assuming that is only labelled with one of the commercial available "big sheets" printed facsimiles.

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  • 2 months later...

A kind gentleman, an occasional passive reader of Maestronet, contacted me out of the blue by email, and told me of his Böck viola. The Viola has a body length of 411mm, which is fairly large for 18th C. circumstances. The Füssen (and related) makers seem to have made violas in three sizes, small 380mm, medium 406mm and large (rare) 420mm, so a 411mm body length puts Böck squarely outside of any Füssen influence. I am extreemly pleased to have been told of a second Böck instrument with original (it seems) label, since it affords us of the possibility to compare it with my violin, and work out characteristic features of this school, and since the two instruments are some 20+ years apart, one may observe any development, along with what is characteristic.

 

I have been given permission to reproduce his photographs here:

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Many thanks to the anonymous gentleman!

This viola reminds me of an unknown small viola offered at T2 which we used to discuss a longer while ago, without coming to a conclusion (and Jacob had a special interest in it). If anybody is remembering the name of the thread (started by Dwight, as I believe), could the person post a link?

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55 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Yes the outline has similarities, the scroll rather not.

It was discussed if the scroll is original there at all, and about alterations of the outlines, too. So an altered and blurred instrument of the "obscures" might be always a good candidate to any also obscure but italian attribution.;)

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