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Markn/Schönbach Dutzendarbeit violin

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Due to my own preference for not selling anything that is not in very good to perfect condition I find that below about $1,000 US the only options are modern Chinese. Since there are people who do indeed still want an older and or European instrument  I find that cottage industry or mass produced pre- war European  instruments with acceptable, modern measurements that don't need any real repairs find a home in the $1,000 to $5,000 range. Instruments that can sell above that start being worth restoration and in some ways it is easier to find better grade instruments that are damaged but still economically restorable than less expensive ones which have survived in salable condition and need only the usual set up and cleaning to go on the rack.

I'm sure I would feel differently  if I had helpers who needed to be kept busy. Then some of the Dutzenarbeit or French trade instruments would be  worth working on and I could afford to buy those with cracks, low neck pitch, etc. and bring them up to the standards I set for my shop.

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11 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said:

Due to my own preference for not selling anything that is not in very good to perfect condition I find that below about $1,000 US the only options are modern Chinese. Since there are people who do indeed still want an older and or European instrument  I find that cottage industry or mass produced pre- war European  instruments with acceptable, modern measurements that don't need any real repairs find a home in the $1,000 to $5,000 range. Instruments that can sell above that start being worth restoration and in some ways it is easier to find better grade instruments that are damaged but still economically restorable than less expensive ones which have survived in salable condition and need only the usual set up and cleaning to go on the rack.

I'm sure I would feel differently  if I had helpers who needed to be kept busy. Then some of the Dutzenarbeit or French trade instruments would be  worth working on and I could afford to buy those with cracks, low neck pitch, etc. and bring them up to the standards I set for my shop.

Generally I agree but I believe you'd be surprised what one can find in range far lower than 1k US dollar sometimes.

It depends on two words: where and when.

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30 minutes ago, ______ said:

Generally I agree but I believe you'd be surprised what one can find in range far lower than 1k US dollar sometimes.

It depends on two words: where and when.

If you mean for sale wholesale please let me know where.:blink:

If you mean retail the dealer should be charging more.:)

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I am on the east coast U.S. All I am trying to communicate is that a violin buyer with $1,000 to $3,000 to spend on an instrument in a dealer's shop can choose between new decent Chinese production violins and vintage anonymous "dutzendarbeit" violins of similar quality as musical instruments. Dealers around here seem to have both in surplus abundance, and will offer both to customers. 

Both these types of violins compete in the same price range. Note that I am not talking about the horrible, beaver-tooth, awful-sounding, cheaper "dutzendarbeit" violins, nor am I talking about nitro-lacquered plain-wood machine-made Chinese violins. There are many "dutzendarbeit" violins that were originally well-made by anonymous makers in the cottage industry (or re-worked), and are perfectly serviceable and attractive instruments. There are many perfectly attractive and serviceable instruments coming out of China, too.

Some customers will pay a bit more (and some dealers may charge a bit more) for a "vintage" violin compared to a new Chinese violin of comparable quality within that price range because the perceived value of an older violin is higher in some customers' minds. Some customers can't understand why anyone would want an old antique violin when they can buy a pristine new one for the same price.

It is not unusual at all for commodity items at the wholesale level to sell for different prices at the retail customer level. I call "dutzendarbeit" violins "commodity violins" because that is mostly how dealers seem to buy them at the wholesale level. Like I noted, most of the ones I visit already have a surplus of these instruments, and are reluctant to add more to their inventories. 

Assuming that the OP's violin is set-up well, fully-restored, and sounds fine, there is no reason that it should sell for less than a new Chinese violin of similar quality, and several reasons to expect that it would sell for a bit more. 

@Blank face 

@Violadamore

 

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7 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Assuming that the OP's violin is set-up well, fully-restored, and sounds fine, there is no reason that it should sell for less than a new Chinese violin of similar quality, and several reasons to expect that it would sell for a bit more. 

In general, yes.

But I'm supposing in case we start to define what means "similar quality" we could fill some more pages, several more about ""sounds fine", so I don't think this is helpful anyhow in regards of pricing.

What I tried to explain was, that new has a price according to a catalogue, even if you sell it as used, while the price of old antique is ruled by the free market.

In practice, actually I won't touch a violin like the OP (except I get it free), because in my venue there's such a high number of similar instruments offered that I would have to wait some years to get a price like the OP is expecting, or had to sell it for less than the half.That doesn't mean it couldn't be worth more, especially in other venues, but it would be hard to realize this value. Old quality Dutzendarbeit is present in such a high number, that it's simply more easy and more cheap to get them than a high quality chinese.  New ordered instruments have similar prices all over the world.

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21 hours ago, Violadamore said:

 (we have a lot of European members trying to buy stuff from/via the USA)  

 

Curious. I don’t know anybody who wants anything from the Usa. In fact, I have just got back from visiting a freind/colleague for sunday lunch* who worked over there for 4 years, and he doesn’t miss anything either.

 

(* Frittatensuppe followed by Gekochtes Rindfleish mit Semmelkren, Rösti and Blaukraut, afterwards Apfelstrudel)

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

 

 

Curious. I don’t know anybody who wants anything from the Usa. In fact, I have just got back from visiting a freind/colleague for sunday lunch* who worked over there for 4 years, and he doesn’t miss anything either.

 

 

 

(* Frittatensuppe followed by Gekochtes Rindfleish mit Semmelkren, Rösti and Blaukraut, afterwards Apfelstrudel)

 

Yup. Similar here.  Had a fine Sunday Lunch of sweet iced tea, green salad, chicken-fried steak and sausage gravy, baked potatoes with butter and chives, sauteed green beans, fresh garlic bread, afterwards Key Lime pie, with some academic and professional friends, including some ex-pats who were explaining to us why wild horses couldn't drag them back to Europe.  No bull.  :)

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Curious. I don’t know anybody who wants anything from the Usa.

Not much that Americans want from Austria either. Except pistols, lots and lots of them. You guys have that down. But I suppose they are probably made from parts from all around the world these days.

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12 minutes ago, deans said:

Not much that Americans want from Austria either. Except pistols, lots and lots of them. You guys have that down. But I suppose they are probably made from parts from all around the world these days.

I like Steyr bullpup rifles, and the FAL knockoff STG 58's they built, but Sako in Finland has them beat nowadays for quality bolt actions.  My pistols are all Colts. 

They publish some neat violin books. :)

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1 minute ago, Blank face said:

So they all lived happily after, saying (ten times and very fast) "Blaukraut bleibt Blaukraut und Brautkleid bleibt Brautkleid"!:rolleyes:

Like!! :lol:

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15 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

I like Steyr bullpup rifles, and the FAL knockoff STG 58's they built, but Sako in Finland has them beat nowadays for quality bolt actions.  My pistols are all Colts. 

They publish some neat violin books. :)

Books... and... yeah that's about it.

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1 minute ago, Michael Jennings said:

Mozart, Haydn, Strauss, Kriesler, ............................................ adds to long list...............?????????

Oh yeah he was talking about Austria, i meant American books... But still, are we buying composers now?

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16 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Jacob you are such a shit-stirrer! Did you take classes or are you just naturally gifted?

:D

popcorn-and-drink-smiley-emoticon.gif.af97855f6c7776dfbded1bbe9208651c.gif

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13 hours ago, Blank face said:

What I tried to explain was, that new has a price according to a catalogue, even if you sell it as used, while the price of old antique is ruled by the free market.

The retail price for a "new" violin depends on whose label is put in it and then what catalogue or dealership that it shows-up in. 

Many dealers buy unlabeled Chinese violins wholesale,  and then select their own grades and retail price points for them, much as they do with "dutzendarbeit" violins. 

In my opinion, everything about selling new or used violins in the $1,000 - 3,000 retail price range is ruled by the free-market. 

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The average Dutzendarbeit, that has spent the last 40 years in someones attic/bike shed, needs at least bridge/post/board/peg/clean & touch up, and often more, and it is this that makes the bulk of the retail price. Therefore those such as the OP one are not worth much „as is“. I suppose one could say similar for some chinese ones, if you set them up properly, rather that selling them „out of the box“ like a musik shop.  Otherwise I compleatly agree with BF, dealing with antiques is a quite different world to dealing with new maufactured stuff.  

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