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Steve Rodriguez

Scoop

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Here’s a fairly simple question that I struggle with.

Regarding scoop with regards to arching,  as I seem to understand, it is the band of around 10 or so mm of counter-curvature or fluting that goes around the perimeter of the violin on the top and bottom plates.

What then is the more horizontal scooping called that is within the C bouts that travels up to the f holes?  

Is that also called scooping?

Thank you for any help you can provide.,

Steve

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No reply yet so I will give my opinion. I referred to the “scoop” in the c-bout starting at the lower f-hole wing as fluting. I do not know if that terminology is correct. 

-Jim 

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I say fluting for the f-hole wings, too (if they are fluted); and channelling around the purfling. Not sure scoop has a specific meaning/ application in the violin world. 

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3 hours ago, Guido said:

I say fluting for the f-hole wings, too (if they are fluted); and channelling around the purfling. Not sure scoop has a specific meaning/ application in the violin world. 

The scoop describes the North-South curvature of the fingerboard surface, as far as I'm informed.

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I'd say that they're largely interchangeable when it comes to arching and f holes. But I think the more accepted terms are perhaps recurve for the arching and fluting for the f holes. 

Or is recurve more within the arching and not near the edgework?

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Okay I was just wondering; The reason I used the scoop term is because Mr. Darnton called the the area around the perimeter scoop:

http://www.darntonviolins.com/violinmagazine/book/edgework.pdf

the other scooped parts/terms like the fluting for the wings and that recurve for the C’s sound good to me.  

Thank you for the enlightenment.

steve

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As people have noted in this thread, 'scoop' can be a handy word for various things on a violin.   But I don't think it's a word that has acquired any really agreed upon standard usage for violin work.  It's just a generic word for almost any concave feature.

On the other hand, the word 'channel' is emerging as a mostly standard word for the 'scoop' that happens between the edge and the main part of the plate arching.   In classical Cremona work this runs a pretty consistent and even distance through each main bout area.

 

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On 9/5/2018 at 1:52 AM, Nick Allen said:

 But I think the more accepted terms are perhaps recurve for the arching and fluting for the f holes. 

Or is recurve more within the arching and not near the edgework?

If you take a look at your Epi electric you can see the graceful shaping around the perimeter which is known as and is called the recurve.  Recurve means to reshape but when I brought that train of thought here to MN for violin work the reply was like no , that's not what it is at all.

From the outer edge downcut to the purfling and going inwards to where the arching starts it's concavity should be called the recurve because that what it really, really is.

The channel, the way I see it, is the actual dugout trench that the purfling sets down in.  The word "trough" can be the 3/8"- 10 mm or so wood removal area above the installed purfling that eventually blends with the outer edge and reflex? area of the upslope - that can be called channeling too depending on which gouge is used.  When observing some workers work their cutting work does look like a channel instead of a trough when they're through.

Gibson players who recognize what a recurve really is by looking at their own instrument will never win the "what is a recurve pertaining to violin " discussion here at Maestronet, even though we know we're right. 

Imo, if one chooses to introduce an aggressive looking recurve via scraping do not alienate the corner blocks and surrounding rib structure by removing too much material - give the rightly set soundpost a chance to do all the work. 

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  If by chance you did observe a Les Paul guitar recurve, as per my reply to Nick, by all means do not incorporate that kind of work to your violin work.  You'll simply lose power/volume by doing so.

  The idea with the recurve/trough/channel/scoop area is to discreetly and intuitionaly wise carve, sand and scrape that area into something that you think will work well for the plan and wood at hand.  A discreet scraping job in the lower wing area should be attended too also. Do the scraping but don't make it look like you did so.  - the prominent grain lines showing up after scraping the wing is o.k. in my book.

  I did carry a recurve area for both plates deeper than what appears normal on other violins.  It's what the D.G. plan said to do archingwise but afterwards led to a low powered, low volume fiddle that I can play all day long without going deaf.  That one may simply need more time to get better.  This does not adhere to my "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" train of thought for volume and power when needed.

This may help a little too.  The fiddles I made a few years ago didn't start coming around tonewise for almost two years.  I mean the tone was there but it just gets better with time.  I guess the wooden pieces, glue and varnish curing have to have their time to come together as a unit.  What I'm saying too is not to get too carried away with the bridge cutting and soundpost placements soon after a new build - you can if you want to though.

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Uncle Duke I think I see what you are talking about with the guitar.  Basically I shouldn’ take that recurve to the extreme on the violin. I like the Idea of being aware that the violin will change and to let it do its thing and maybe not to chase every change with trying to fix it.  I hope though that mine gets better like yours do.  

Thanks for the wisdom.

steve

 

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