Bridge shape to suit music style?

[MikeV]

My son visited with his Uncle this summer and he mentioned violin bridges are cut differently based on whether you fiddle (Irish Music) or play classical music.  Where the fiddlers prefer a step angle to the E string.

Any validity to this?  Do players or style of music end up preferring a particular bridge shape?

[Nick Allen]

I'm pretty sure that a fiddle bridge is flatter across the top, and possibly shorter overall. Actually more akin to a Baroque bridge now that I think about it. 

To facilitate double and even triple stops, and having a lower action makes fast fingerings easier too I suppose.

[palousian]

Fiddler here.  I like a standard bridge arc, myself.  Certainly for Irish music you wouldn't want a flatter bridge, since making double-stops easier would not be desirable in that style.  In Appalachian and bluegrass playing, yeah, some players prefer a flatter bridge, but I have no trouble getting a triple-stop when I need one.  I think that some of this tradition of a flatter bridge is that fiddlers have historically used a wider range of quality than violinists, and many players have done their own work--or at least not-professionally-trained folks have done the work.  In any case, the flatter bridge thing is not at all a standard for fiddlers, in my experience.

[Jack Devereux]

I played bluegrass, old time and Irish music for a living for years, and now work in a shop that does work for predominantly straight ahead classical players. I see absolutely no reason to do a different setup for different musics styles.

 

I tried an experiment once where a friend who is a very serious old time player (wouldn’t do this to a customer) asked for a flat bridge. I laid out the bridge head with the regular curve under the strings, but swept the edges up so it appeared flatter. He loved it, said it was the best bridge shape he’d ever had. 

 

I suspect the “fiddle setup” the local butcher offers is often code for “I don’t have the woodworking chops to nail a good, consistent setup.” Sorry for the rant, just as someone who takes both traditional music and really good violin setup really seriously, this is a major pet peeve. 

[jacobsaunders]

I once cut a viola bridge for the violist in Sandor Lakatos‘ band, which was exactly flat. The viola Player spends all evening, holding his viola horizontaly, pumping out chords, so he doesn’t even want to play one string at a time. Given, an extreme example.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sandor+lakatos&qpvt=sandor+lakatos&view=detail&mid=6C7F738E4F2E1DC7BFE06C7F738E4F2E1DC7BFE0&rvsmid=811171475F6BDD47869B811171475F6BDD47869B&FORM=VDQVAP

[Bill Yacey]

Thanks for posting that link Jacob; I really enjoy his music.

[J Corry]

I am a fiddler for most of my music, but I have also trained in classical music for most of my life. 

I have discussed bridges with a number of predominant fiddlers here in Canada, and the general consensus was that a standard "classical" setup is best for fiddling (in the Canadian styles) - unless, like Vasser Clements you have a good reason to change (for him flatter to facilitate triple stops) and the skills to validate the change. 

1 hour ago, Jack Devereux said:

Sorry for the rant, just as someone who takes both traditional music and really good violin setup really seriously, this is a major pet peeve. 

Yes, yes, yes. 

J

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

I had country/western, Irish, old time, and bluegrass fiddlers try my last instrument with a traditional bridge and none of them suggested I flatten the crown.  Doesn't mean there aren't some out there who would.  Just my limited anecdotal experience.

[jacobsaunders]

1 hour ago, Bill Yacey said:

Thanks for posting that link Jacob; I really enjoy his music.

The music gets even better after about the third glass of wine

[MikeV]

Thanks for the responses, they have all been interesting. 

Is there a recognized "standard" setup for bridges?  I'm ask since many of the violins I've seen have bridges with different appearances.  From symmetrical, to low, to sloping.

How can I tell if the bridge is technically "correctly" setup?  I had some concern with string height and potential damage to fingers.  I get varying answers on the subject.

[David Burgess]

4 hours ago, MikeV said:

 

Do players or style of music end up preferring a particular bridge shape?

Sometimes, but most of us have done quite well with standard setup parameters.

If you run into a fiddler who doesn't want to move his right arm enough to make anything other than lazy string crossings, or doesn't know how to move the bow toward the fingerboard to play three strings at a time, I would suggest physical therapy first, followed by education.

If anyone wants to mess with me on the "education" thing,  I have not yet met a "fiddle" player who I thought was stupid. Sometimes, much smarter than the way more edumecated people.

Good setup often involves individual player preference.

[ClefLover]

I would love to hear from Mr. Swan, as he is both a wonderful Celtic stylist and fine dealer (whom, I assume, is a luthier as well).

[Nick Allen]

3 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

I'm pretty sure that a fiddle bridge is flatter across the top, and possibly shorter overall. Actually more akin to a Baroque bridge now that I think about it. 

To facilitate double and even triple stops, and having a lower action makes fast fingerings easier too I suppose.

Hmm. I guess I've been mislead for quite some time now.

[Woodman]

Yes, a lower D&A on a bluegrass ("BG") bridge. Makes double-stops easy between adjacent pairs of strings. But as string slots wear, the D&A getting slightly lower is a pain.  These bridges are frowned upon by 'concert' and orchestra directors / teachers. 

[PASEWICZ]

I am with the consensus; if the instrument is set up well it works.  But I must say, if an “old time” player cannot play because of the set-up, I would consider it a gift to society.

[Rue]

15 minutes ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

... But I must say, if an “old time” player cannot play because of the set-up, I would consider it a gift to society.

Harsh!

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

16 minutes ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

I am with the consensus; if the instrument is set up well it works.  But I must say, if an “old time” player cannot play because of the set-up, I would consider it a gift to society.

Lol!  Jerry, you crack me up.

[PASEWICZ]

5 minutes ago, Rue said:

Harsh!

Yeah, and keep them off my lawn!

[David Burgess]

32 minutes ago, Julian Cossmann Cooke said:

Lol!  Jerry, you crack me up.

Cracked me up too. But one kinda needs to know Jerry to "get" stuff like that. It was even funnier when I first met him, when he was about 13 years old, and had the curmudgeon act down pretty well even then.

(OK, he might have actually been as old as his late 20's)

[GeorgeH]

1 hour ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

I am with the consensus; if the instrument is set up well it works.  But I must say, if an “old time” player cannot play because of the set-up, I would consider it a gift to society.

Answer to the age-old question: What is the difference between a classical violin and an old-timey fiddle?

The old-timey fiddle is fun to listen to.

Bah-Bah-Boom

[Salve Håkedal]

6 hours ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

I am with the consensus; if the instrument is set up well it works.  But I must say, if an “old time” player cannot play because of the set-up, I would consider it a gift to society.

Ohh well, there are "gifts to society" you don't see, if you're narrow minded.

[duane88]

25 minutes ago, Salve Håkedal said:

Ohh well, there are "gifts in society" you don't see, if you're narrow minded.

Beautiful!

 

Also, let us not forget that we are in a customer service industry. If someone wants to pay us to cut a bridge that is low and flat, perhaps that is what we should do. I mean, when a violinist asks for a bit more scoop in the board and a higher bridge, do we send them away?

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

12 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Answer to the age-old question: What is the difference between a classical violin and an old-timey fiddle?

The old-timey fiddle is fun to listen to.

Bah-Bah-Boom

$5000

You don't want to spill beer on a classical violin

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, Julian Cossmann Cooke said:

You don't want to spill beer on a classical violin

Violas are OK though.

[GeorgeH]

This bridge came off an American-made fiddle by a fiddle player and maker named Oscar Davis in Ohio. I bought this fiddle from a Pawn Shop in Missoula Montana. It was clearly well-loved and well-played. It came with a very well-worn Heddon metal bow, a hardly-used wood bow, and a 1-inch stack of Red-Label strings.

It is clearly an American fiddle made for American fiddle music by an American fiddle player. I replaced the bridge with a classical bridge, but saved the original bridge in case somebody wants to switch it back.

I have attached the as-found and before and after restoration pictures.