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H.R.Fisher

Top plate dilemma

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 I  am currently working on a top which is at: Wt.79 gm     Mode 2- 162hz    mode 5- 332hz, with BB and ffs cut, density ..41  I like to have my tops somewhat below 70 gm  but this will bring my mode 5 well below 300hz. I would like to have your expert opinion on whether it is best to leave it where it is or would it be best to reduce the weight even tho this would have a low mode5 ?

                                                                                                                                                                         Thanks in advance for your consideration

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Henry       

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24 minutes ago, Oded Kishony said:

I would just try it in the white and see how it sounds.

That would be the safest route.

I have experimented with some high-density wood, and haven't had M5 come out exceptionally low.  I see the M2 is quite high, so there's some stiffness to the plate.  My opinion is that the weight matters more than the M5, so I'd go lighter.  But that's me.

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2 hours ago, Oded Kishony said:

Can you remove some wood from the perimeter? 

I would just try it in the white and see how it sounds.

I haven't found much value in playing a violin in the white, since so much changes upon varnishing, and since so many of us aren't seeking a "violin in the white" sound or performance characteristics anyway.

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36 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I haven't found much value in playing a violin in the white, since so much changes upon varnishing, and since so many of us aren't seeking a "violin in the white" sound or performance characteristics anyway.

Agreed that there are huge tonal differences between varnished and not, but I think there could be some utility in checking out the overall stiffness and signature modes in cases where the wood properties and in-process checkpoints are abnormal.

If the signature modes of the assembled white violin with this plate are at or above normal frequencies, and things are not tending toward tubbiness, then there would be more confidence in popping the top and taking out more wood.

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1 hour ago, Don Noon said:

Agreed that there are huge tonal differences between varnished and not, but I think there could be some utility in checking out the overall stiffness and signature modes in cases where the wood properties and in-process checkpoints are abnormal.

If the signature modes of the assembled white violin with this plate are at or above normal frequencies, and things are not tending toward tubbiness, then there would be more confidence in popping the top and taking out more wood.

Granted, in theory,  but I've been underwhelmed by the outcomes of my own experiences with regraduating, adjusting rib height, etc.

They should have worked, but the outcomes were more of a mixed bag.

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   Thanks for all your helpful responses. I thinned it down to 77g    with a ring tone of 326hz  and mode 2 at 154 hz. Grads are from 2.3 to 3.4 at sp area. I think i'll settle with that.[ BTW the density is .41 not .45 as I had initially posted]  

 I am aware that tap tones and weights are not indicative of the final results but one needs to have some parameters to work with,much like blood pressure reading ,just because your BP is within the normal range this doesn't necessarily mean you are in good health, but, if it is  abnormally high it is an indication your not in good health.

 

 

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Whether you tap one spot or scatch one spot, any sound you hear comes from the whole plate itself, not just from one section you are scratching.

I do not quite understand his method, hence my OP, I want to know more about his method from himself or anyone familiar with his method.

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8 hours ago, chungviolins said:

Whether you tap one spot or scatch one spot, any sound you hear comes from the whole plate itself, not just from one section you are scratching.

I do not quite understand his method, hence my OP, I want to know more about his method from himself or anyone familiar with his method.

Posted in the wrong topic?

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17 hours ago, H.R.Fisher said:

   Thanks for all your helpful responses. I thinned it down to 77g    with a ring tone of 326hz  and mode 2 at 154 hz. Grads are from 2.3 to 3.4 at sp area. I think i'll settle with that.[ BTW the density is .41 not .45 as I had initially posted]  

 I am aware that tap tones and weights are not indicative of the final results but one needs to have some parameters to work with,much like blood pressure reading ,just because your BP is within the normal range this doesn't necessarily mean you are in good health, but, if it is  abnormally high it is an indication your not in good health.

 

 

I am quite obsessed with low weight tops as well, but just by experience I learned that Guarneri models work pretty well with a rather heavy top and solid thicknesses especially in the center. 

If I am not happy about the weight I am using a combined method to hunt down superficial weight;

as reicommended by Oded Kishony, just looking at the edge except at the upper and lower block. Often there is just too much mass especially around the CC. 

Second I hold it against a strong light and look for darker areas .

bending  areas of the upper or lower bout with my hands gives an indication as well. 

For everything I have in mind to build a membrane of more or less equal thickness so I try to avoid too big differences between thickest and thinnest zones. Maybe something like 4:5 

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4 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

Often there is just too much mass especially around the CC. 

"Too much" based on knowledge that it works better (or equally as well) with less mass there, or "too much" based on just observing that it's often thicker there?

Personally, I kinda think there's a good reason for that thickness, although I don't have proof.

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4 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

....just looking at the edge except at the upper and lower block. Often there is just too much mass especially around the CC. 

It seems nearly to be a brand of Stradivari/Guarneri-del-Gesú - top graduations ( a little bit also in the backs -  particularly in Strad-backs ) to remain strong particularly in these CC-edges.

However I agree with all of your other points.

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On 7/17/2018 at 12:09 AM, David Burgess said:

I haven't found much value in playing a violin in the white, since so much changes upon varnishing, and since so many of us aren't seeking a "violin in the white" sound or performance characteristics anyway.

What´s about to play in the white but grounded ? This sound should be nearer the final (varnished) sound.

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On 16. heinäkuuta 2018 at 11:20 PM, Davide Sora said:
 
I would raise the arching and make it more curved in the cross section, but it is not something that can be done, unfortunately:(

But it can be done, even the bb. Not too much (20-25 Hz), or you have trouble matching the ribs outline 

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