DR. S

Opinions on this label

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35 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

For those students of “cornerblockology”,I should perhaps extend my “French cornerblockoogy” thread https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/339872-french-cornerblockology/

with pictures of a fairly typical, but ca. 50 years older French one, which I think will help better with the OP one

Foto_2.JPG

Foto_1.JPG

I see the OP’s obvious cornerblock extension into the center bout rather than the upper/lower bouts, and still looks as if the C bout/upper lining is let into the cornerblocks as opposed to your example and the “cornerblock-ology” French definition.  Am I seeing it wrong in these two photos? 

 

3B07B181-8FE8-42B9-BCB3-6612C6D9D889.png

DB10AFCC-1E95-40B6-B66B-EE2893B8F68A.png

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24 minutes ago, ClefLover said:

I see the OP’s obvious cornerblock extension into the center bout rather than the upper/lower bouts, and still looks as if the C bout/upper lining is let into the cornerblocks as opposed to your example and the “cornerblock-ology” French definition.  Am I seeing it wrong in these two photos? 

 

 

 

I am, to be quite honest, not quite sure if I understand your question. At the risk of compounding a misunderstanding; the middle bout linings are mitred ONTO (not into) the blocks, as you can see on the birds-eye perspective, which gives a phoney impression of being let into the blocks when viewed from the opposite side.

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7 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I am, to be quite honest, not quite sure if I understand your question. At the risk of compounding a misunderstanding; the middle bout linings are mitred ONTO (not into) the blocks, as you can see on the birds-eye perspective, which gives a phoney impression of being let into the blocks when viewed from the opposite side.

I see the mitre now, I had to take off my tri-focal bottle cap glasses and squint ;)

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The angled cut on some early-mid 19th century French violins (esp. Lupot & Pique) does lead to a bit of confusion, since for some it is a "silver bullet" point of ID for Hungarian work (Schweitzer et al).

Which just goes to show that no single element can be taken as definitive.

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12 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The angled cut on some early-mid 19th century French violins (esp. Lupot & Pique) does lead to a bit of confusion, since for some it is a "silver bullet" point of ID for Hungarian work (Schweitzer et al).

Which just goes to show that no single element can be taken as definitive.

Except that Schweiter's middle bout linings are let into the corner blocks. The pictured (Mast) blocks/linings, glued onto the blocks at a sort of mitre, certainly is definitive French if you ask me.

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34 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Agree ... but it can be hard to distinguish between the two without the top off

 

Or without your " tri-focal bottle cap glasses" on:rolleyes: 

 

Bottom line; one may diagnose the OP fiddle as French, 19th. C. as said on a previous page

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If the inside is covered with old dust and dirt it can be sometimes hard to distinguish if the end of the lining is cut off or disappearing in the block, But in my eyes there are other features, the form of the block or that french blocks usually are heavily concave rounded (very good to see in all the photos), while the surface of inside mould blocks are more or less straight. All this very generally spoken.

IMG_7041.JPG

IMG_123849.JPG

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44 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Or without your " tri-focal bottle cap glasses" on:rolleyes: 

 

Bottom line; one may diagnose the OP fiddle as French, 19th. C. as said on a previous page

Haha!  It’s a miracle I’m allowed to drive...

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On 7/13/2018 at 6:35 PM, DR. S said:

One of the things I have noticed is the very unusual and distinctive cut of the upper part of the f-hole.  The inner edge is rounded and parallels the outer edge rather than having a blocked shape.  I have been looking at many photos and have yet to come across anything like it.  I am hoping someone out there might recognize this style of cut.  Not seeing it on Mirecourt instruments - yet anyway.

 

The whole thing look extremely French to me too.  The scroll, I suppose, although quintessentially French, could be slightly earlier than the rest, but I think it might actually all be from the same period of early 19th century.

The upper wing part of the f-hole has probably been damaged and the break "smoothed" over and reproduced (either intentionally or not0 on the opposite side, so am not surprised you haven't seen it on Mirecourt instruments.

I suspect it has a longer body than the usual 14inches.  I have seen several 360+mm back length, and often with the lower opening of the f-hole far closer to the edge than "normal", which again doesn't tend to be seen on anything else than French work of the period.

Dendro? why not...(Jacob, don't feel you need to answer this last question.:))

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Full agreement! We all know what it is already, except the OP, who is not yet convinced. Paying you fifty quid for a Dendro might help him climb down off his high horse.

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On 7/15/2018 at 7:33 AM, DR. S said:

 I am always puzzled why someone would make such a marvelous instrument and try to pass it off as something else.

Because, as we all know..., the value is determined by who made it and what condition it is in, not how it sounds.

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11 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Paying you fifty quid for a Dendro might help him climb down off his high horse.

I'm holding my tongue here.  I have made no assertions, only passed on information.  I have done nothing but admit ignorance, except, to encourage possible rethinking, simply pointed out that an acknowledged expert who had it in their possession for 3 weeks had a completely different opinion, this is not MY opinion.  My only opinion is how good an instrument it is, because that is all I am qualified to judge.   If he is wrong, he is wrong.  We'll find out soon enough.

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1 hour ago, DR. S said:

I'm holding my tongue here.  I have made no assertions, only passed on information.  I have done nothing but admit ignorance, except, to encourage possible rethinking, simply pointed out that an acknowledged expert who had it in their possession for 3 weeks had a completely different opinion, this is not MY opinion.  My only opinion is how good an instrument it is, because that is all I am qualified to judge.   If he is wrong, he is wrong.  We'll find out soon enough.

actually Peter charges more than 50 quid (I was just teasing)

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New Info, the owner just discovered tucked away in his paperwork, that the violin was identified as French, 1730.  Having a Dendro done.  Stay tuned . . .

 

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I guessed commercial Mirecourt  work circa 1825 before I saw other’s opinions, I had  pass through my hands a Grancino copy Mirecourt around same date also in poor condition but sounded outstanding, although worth only about 500-2000$ (conductors and your audience likely will never care who made your violin).  Your instrument definitely looks antiqued, made to look old, not that it hasn’t aged a lot besides.  I wouldn’t pay more than 2000$ and, just like when buying any violin, only if I looked long and hard at other violins in the same range.

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We told him/her that about 2 months ago….

It crossed my mind that if you took the fake label out there could well be one of those (triangular) stamps beneath.

Never mind.

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17 hours ago, DR. S said:

New Info, the owner just discovered tucked away in his paperwork, that the violin was identified as French, 1730. 

 

Old owner's or family documents discovered in paperwork and identifying violins as some 17hundred thing are causing the 2nd deep impact on my BS-o-meter today :ph34r::ph34r:

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Now you have three choices. You can believe the paper you just found, the guys on this board, or the Cremona guy. Dendro might help if you are considering all of these choices equally.

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