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Carl Flesch Arpeggios Fingering Logic?


tchaikovsgay
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Hi. I see there are two fingerings provided in the Carl Fischer edition (in different fonts: normal & italicized), but the only logic among the same type of arpeggio among different keys seems to only be them being mirrored (same fingerings ascending and descending)... I found it very hard to memorize any of them... Is there a specific logic to remember?

Say, for ABRSM (italicized):

-mirrored (same fingerings ascending and descending)

-use index finger for all tonics

-always start the first note on G string

 

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I cannot ask my teacher about little things anymore because he already calls me a "scientist" for writing all intonation difference in cents out!! 

Thank you

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Are you using the 149 page version? That's all I could find for Flesch scales.  

At my age of 52 I find when I do feel like putting myself through something like these Flesch scales the first thing to do is to memorize what's on paper pattern wise even if I don't agree.  I'm not sure memorizing is the term needed but just don't stray from what's written.  Who am I to say if my fingerings would be better? 

  Like one of my ways would be maybe to play a set of triplets just using the index finger instead of the shifts presented on paper.  But that takes away the challenge of learning what was written long ago which is why I sitting there looking at it in the first place. 

  What's confusing is adding the italicized 4's into the mix when they're not incorporated early into the fingering pattern familiarizing process.  Sometimes, or I will say,  more often than not, the pattern I've just spent some valuable time memorizing changes somewhat now hence causing confusion which might be where you're at now.    

It is taxing on the mind to remember/recognize patterns but it can be done. 

  I'd think you could use other fingers for the tonic notes but you have to remember the pattern.  Use your way until a better idea presents itself via a better player or higher echelon instructor telling you to do it their way.

I notice in this 149 page Flesch version there are the octave arpeggios - the challenge for any awaits any aspiring violinist moving the patterns from G and D strings up to the A and E strings, which is the direction to go if one wants to spend the time attempting whilst not losing a lot of money..  

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On 7/7/2018 at 10:40 PM, uncle duke said:

Are you using the 149 page version? That's all I could find for Flesch scales.  

At my age of 52 I find when I do feel like putting myself through something like these Flesch scales the first thing to do is to memorize what's on paper pattern wise even if I don't agree.  I'm not sure memorizing is the term needed but just don't stray from what's written.  Who am I to say if my fingerings would be better? 

  Like one of my ways would be maybe to play a set of triplets just using the index finger instead of the shifts presented on paper.  But that takes away the challenge of learning what was written long ago which is why I sitting there looking at it in the first place. 

  What's confusing is adding the italicized 4's into the mix when they're not incorporated early into the fingering pattern familiarizing process.  Sometimes, or I will say,  more often than not, the pattern I've just spent some valuable time memorizing changes somewhat now hence causing confusion which might be where you're at now.    

It is taxing on the mind to remember/recognize patterns but it can be done. 

  I'd think you could use other fingers for the tonic notes but you have to remember the pattern.  Use your way until a better idea presents itself via a better player or higher echelon instructor telling you to do it their way.

I notice in this 149 page Flesch version there are the octave arpeggios - the challenge for any awaits any aspiring violinist moving the patterns from G and D strings up to the A and E strings, which is the direction to go if one wants to spend the time attempting whilst not losing a lot of money..  

I'm using the 142 page Carl Fischer version

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You question is hard to follow, but make sure you're on the right string.  In A major the upper fingering goes from pos. 1 to 4 to 7, and the lower fingering goes from 1 to 3 to 7 with all the shifing on the E string, in the second case.

For your memorizing problem, play it just 1 octave but shift to 4th for the 2nd space A, then descending, E in 1st pos with the same finger.  You can add the second and third octave one at a time the same way,

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Here's an excerpt from the preface paragraphs before the scales show up.

.......incidentally, the necessity of scale systems is underlined by the fact that important violin competitions such as the Fritz Kreisler Competition require scales to be performed in their programs.

Why not spend the rest of your violin playing days following Kreisler?  I would if I were young enough and had ample time.  There's not a better way to experience the dark, gloomy later 1940"s than to listen or even attempt to play his compositions.  Recapture the Aura.

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On 7/8/2018 at 3:13 PM, uncle duke said:

There's not a better way to experience the dark, gloomy later 1940"s than to listen or even attempt to play his compositions.  Recapture the Aura.

Or you could just watch TCM movies :) Lots of pieces will make you want to have to find a pianist, and a good one.  Telemann Fantasies are intermediate solo pieces and will keep you busy for awhile.   Lower positions, working on the basics.

What I do with fiddle is work on technique  that you would need in an orchestra, including lots of reading, not to play in orchestras again necessarily, but it's satisfying knowing what you could do, and seeing actually tangible improvements.  It also doesn't have you comparing your output with some star, which is stupid.

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