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Mysterious Joseph Dalagio Fecit in Mantua


retrieverim
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On 7/2/2018 at 3:04 AM, martin swan said:

I suppose it could be quite early but it looks completely Saxony to me ... the corners just look worn down to nothing.

What is a "markie notch"? It's the norm for Mittenwald violins to have a notch at the centre bottom of the bottom rib.

By the way what is a Saxon and Mittenwald violin? 

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On 7/6/2018 at 2:03 PM, mood2000 said:

so if someone had taken an original Stradivarius label & re-glued in different modern violin, the appraisers can know that from the shade of wood .

sometimes the appraisers scratch the label to check the color & the shade of  (wood & label) for confirmation

I'm sorry, but if your "appraiser" is relying on things like this to identify an instrument, or to establish it's age, really you need to run out of there and go somewhere else, because the only confirmation it will provide, is that they don't know what they are doing.

It has been said many times, that the label is the most unreliable way of authenticating an instrument.

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7 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

It has been said many times, that the label is the most unreliable way of authenticating an instrument.

Nah, that's only #2.  Judging by the inquiries that continually pour in to MN,  the most unreliable has to be "family tradition". :rolleyes::lol:

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20 hours ago, retrieverim said:

By the way what is a Saxon and Mittenwald violin? 

Take a few minutes and search the site.  A distinction can be made between these areas in the 18th c., when violins were made by individual makers, and the more assembly-line cottage-industry methods of the 19th c., but a quick answer is that these are distinct traditions of violin-making, with signature styles that can be easily discerned by knowledgeable people like Jacob Saunders...as here--

 

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22 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

really you need to run out of there and go somewhere else

from what you have said I guess you are not an expert , & I don't want to know who you are !! . you need a 100 years to understand what i mean is ? :D 

i haven't said all labels are genuine , there are a thousands of labels are fake too .
the label is only a part of violin appraising , there are other clues for apprising too ( i agree ).
my point is : Many labels are fake , but even fake labels might give an idea of who made the violin .

the most reputable appeasers if not all of them , they mentioned on the certificate of authenticity a famous phrase : "the label of the instrument bear an original label " . So if you have a different opinion go and discuss your idea with a reputable appraisers .

unlabeled violins i don't to mention that but to clarify for the ordinary like you or so, regarding unlabeled violins you can not assumed that violin "made by" , No way , Unless if there are enough proves .
they can only "attributed to " or "Ascribed to" or "Follower of " or "Circle of " or "Made for" and you can't find a phrase "made by" unless there are some other clues like tradition of work , pictures or dendrochronology report . 

again to understand what i have said , there is an original label & fake labels (doesn't matter if you agree with me or not)
but "i haven't said we have to believe on all labels".

i don't want to waste my time to teach you how to learn :blink: !!! 

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I don't think I need 100 years to know that scratching a label, as you wrote previously, will not provide some confirmation, nor is a method used by appraisers.

I doubt strongly that anyone with good sense would be scratching away at labels, and damaging them in the process, to see what colour the wood is underneath, and then decide if it is genuine.

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