Violin ID Quiz


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WP09 - Nestor Dominique Audinot

Violin front
Violin back
Front of scroll
Side of scroll
Back of scroll
Violin side view

£16,450.00

 


Sold or Reserved

 
 
Specification
Product Code WP09
Sound Clip
 
 
  • sound_09.mp3
0:00
 
 
0:00
 
  •  

 

The label is inscribed:

Blanchi label
Signed to the left of the label, numbered 306 and dated 1883.


This instrument has a certificate of provenance from
Jean Jacques Rampal 
Expert Près La Cour d'Appel de Paris.


A superb violin by Nestor Dominique Audinot, son of Leopold. Nestor was born in 1842, he worked with Sebastian Vuillaume in Paris from 1863 to 1868 and succeeded to the business in 1875. His violins were mainly based on the Guarneri model and all show fine attention to detail and exquisite craftmanship. This example is in almost mint condition which is quite remarkable considering the age of the violin. The back is two piece of strong diagonal flame, the length is 14 inches (355 mm.) Set up with fine quality ebony fittings, Obligato strings and supplied in a new case. The violin has a beautiful rich lyrical tone with a real touch of class. A very special violin, for collectors and players!

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I find it somewhat flummoxing that, despite praising the instrument, they couldn't be bothered to supply it with decent fittings. Nor could they, for some reason, bring themselves to color this bridge a bit. And for the love of God, shouldn't a £17k fiddle at least be given the courtesy of a hill style fine tuner? 

Forgive me, but cheapness/laziness in setup is a major pet peeve of mine.

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4 hours ago, mood2000 said:

label-audinot.jpg

======================================

%C3%89tiquette_Dominique-Nestor_Audinot_

%C3%89tiquette_Dominique-Nestor_Audinot_

 

Last two black & white Labels are authenticated
but the first label has no reference !!! 

the violin itself looked like a workshop made rather than  the master's work  

 

That caught my attention about the label too... but it seems he used that exact label with signature on the left side around 1882/1883  if you zoom in on the second photo you can get a glimpse of that exact label 

https://brobstviolinshop.com/instruments/nestor-audinot-paris-1882/?view=grid&view=grid

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On 6/11/2018 at 11:15 AM, martin swan said:

Definitely good Paris trade ... the inking on the scroll is a bit slapdash for CM unless it's a later one post 1910 or so.

You say 19th century? I would have thought it was a bit later.

A naive question ( for I have no clue in this matters) would be, if "Paris trade" means a Mirecourt violin overworked or just sold by a Paris shop? And would the value depend of this shop which put it's label into the instrument, i.e. that the same violin could be evaluated very different, just in regards of the shop's reputation?

The Brobst example looks in my eyes very different from the OP, rather more individually, expecially scroll, varnish, edgework, button to name some features, hard to imagine that it was made by the same hands.

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54 minutes ago, Blank face said:

A naive question ( for I have no clue in this matters) would be, if "Paris trade" means a Mirecourt violin overworked or just sold by a Paris shop? And would the value depend of this shop which put it's label into the instrument, i.e. that the same violin could be evaluated very different, just in regards of the shop's reputation?

The Brobst example looks in my eyes very different from the OP, rather more individually, expecially scroll, varnish, edgework, button to name some features, hard to imagine that it was made by the same hands.

Pretty much yes... one of the big French restores in NY said once to me...” there is no such a thing as Paris made violin” everything is Mirecourt 

also you’re looking at a Del Gesu model (the example from the Brobst Shop which does have certain flare of individuality and shows considerably more wear . I personally prefer the cleaner look

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9 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

I find it somewhat flummoxing that, despite praising the instrument, they couldn't be bothered to supply it with decent fittings. Nor could they, for some reason, bring themselves to color this bridge a bit. And for the love of God, shouldn't a £17k fiddle at least be given the courtesy of a hill style fine tuner? 

Forgive me, but cheapness/laziness in setup is a major pet peeve of mine.

I was just thinking the same thing!! Those fittings are truly an ebay-eyesore. And I believe the strings are chinese opera perlon strings. C'mon! It's like selling your white car full of mud...

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1 hour ago, germain said:

Pretty much yes... one of the big French restores in NY said once to me...” there is no such a thing as Paris made violin” everything is Mirecourt 

also you’re looking at a Del Gesu model (the example from the Brobst Shop which does have certain flare of individuality and shows considerably more wear . I personally prefer the cleaner look

I think mine is also a DG model, flatter and bit more idiosyncratic ...

I don't have any doubts as to the authenticity of yours. It's a lovely clean example, and Rampal and his colleagues are extremely well versed in these instruments. The sale price was very cheap - I think you would have paid more like £25K from us for such a clean example, but people have different business models. Maybe we are too expensive.

Hill fine tuners - menh, I don't like them.

The fittings aren't my bag but some people like them.

I can imagine who made the comment about Mirecourt, but this is a bit glib and knowing, and I don't believe it's true. Nestor Audinot like all of his contemporaries sold "workshop" instruments but I'm sure his higher end production was all carried out in Paris, probably by a small team of luthiers who may all have come from Mirecourt!

The Vuillaume makers tend to use pins as did Vuillaume - Audinot was apprentice to Sébastien Vuillaume, not JB, and it's a different thing.

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1 hour ago, germain said:

Pretty much yes... one of the big French restores in NY said once to me...” there is no such a thing as Paris made violin” everything is Mirecourt 

I have heard this, too, but from a different source. If there were workshops actively making violins in Paris, would there not be records of/from them?

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2 hours ago, germain said:

Pretty much yes... one of the big French restores in NY said once to me...” there is no such a thing as Paris made violin” everything is Mirecourt 

also you’re looking at a Del Gesu model (the example from the Brobst Shop which does have certain flare of individuality and shows considerably more wear . I personally prefer the cleaner look

I think I'm able to abstract of different models and wear comparing stylistic features. I'm seeing the Brobst violin has bee stinged purfling, slightly more narrow with different dark stripes, the button much more circular and the edgework, even in the better preserved areas, more gently rounded. The varnish appears to have a a more purple colour, but this can be an effect of the photos. Both series of photos presented here, though of the same violin, give in my eyes (or on my screen?) a different impression of the varnish, too, so that's hard to tell.

Furthermore I was somehow irritated by the expression "Paris trade" - I always thought that the trade was rather a Mirecourt thing, while Paris produced either more individually made instruments or sold shop-labelled Mirecourt. But this can be a misconception.

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1 hour ago, martin swan said:

I can imagine who made the comment about Mirecourt, but this is a bit glib and knowing, and I don't believe it's true. Nestor Audinot like all of his contemporaries sold "workshop" instruments but I'm sure his higher end production was all carried out in Paris, probably by a small team of luthiers who may all have come from Mirecourt!

Carry on believing its not true :), i know it went on a lot with both violins etc... and bows. And not a particularly French thing either, happened in many places. Not saying these makers never made violins from scratch but most wouldn`t know if these were reworked white instruments or not unless you were there at the time. .

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There was definitely a lot of cross-fertilisation! I know it's true in a lot of cases, I was disputing the generalisation that there's "no such thing".

But I think if you looked at a Gand & Bernardel, a Cunault and a Nestor Audinot together you would see pretty major differences, even if they all might have started life in Mirecourt ...

Interesting to ponder how much it matters ... all the great makers have had apprentices doing the roughing out, if not all the work, so probably the degree of control and customisation is more important than the actual pair of hands involved and whether those hands belonged to someone in the same room or off in Mirecourt.

A lot of Karel Boromejsky Dvorak violins are meant to have started in Mirecourt too.

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3 hours ago, martin swan said:

Hill fine tuners - menh, I don't like them

I guess I'm not mad about them either, but i prefer them over what is pictured on this instrument simply because they are less likely to cause a major ding if screwed in all the way and the bridge comes down under full tension. 

What sort do you prefer, out of curiosity? 

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16 hours ago, Eloffe said:

This instrument has a certificate of provenance from
Jean Jacques Rampal 
 Expert Près La Cour d'Appel de Paris.

that is also a clue that is not a certificate of authenticity , Jean Jacques Rampal is very clever expert , i agree with the "provenance" is a French violin , but he didn't gave a certificate of authenticity that is big deference 

but the difference in type of certificate !!!!

you can ask Jacob , BalnkFace or ask Martin He knows that game of some experts & specially in auction houses when they mentioned the violin or bow , for example  :

1. "made by" the master

2. "made for" the master .

3. "workshop" made

4. "school of" 

5. "circle of"  & etc. ....

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