Is there arising a crisis in the antique violins market ?


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6 hours ago, Danube Fiddler said:

I don´t understand, why this violin should sound better than all other great Strads. It also is a thing of taste. I have heard Perlman only one time live - with sonatas in a quite big hall ( with piano). Projection was poor.

In spite of this Perlman in his best times was my favorite violinist together with Zukerman.

It is of course a matter of taste. I heard Perlman once live in the Liederhalle in Stuttgart playing Brahms, and almost an hour worth of encores, and I listened to lots of his recordings. And I find his tone intriguing. I am not talking about projection, there is an edge to the tone of his violin, as if it was very rich in overtones. I hear this even now when he plays Schindler's list.

 

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7 hours ago, Danube Fiddler said:

You can take with yourself earplugs. However : I am not sure, if you really totally ignore, how a good violinist judges an interesting violin directly in your neighbourhood.......

If you are one of those people who thrash out exerpts of the Saint-Saens violin concerto (or similar) right next to my head, whilst I am trying to concentrate, you should realise that I detest such people.

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12 hours ago, MarkBouquet clearsky said:

It's off the main topic but I just wanted to point out that antique furnishings have crashed in value because the generations of people who had an interest in it are too old to collect it anymore, or deceased already. Unlike violins, which are eternally valued by people, antique furnishings are not needed or wanted by younger people, and that won't change. Only true museum quality pieces will retain value. I know many people who spent a lifetime collecting antiques, and they are all reconciled to the fact that they were ultimately very bad investments.

Its not so very different to antique furniture.

An antique chest of drawers works in exactly the same way as a set from Ikea does.

An antique violin in good condition works the same as a new modern non-antiqued violin does.

The main reason that young violinists are still drawn to antique violins is because of their perceived ability as an investment opportunity. The utility to still be a useful item and also go up in value was the main reason the older generation collected antique furniture. When the fashion for old furniture changed,and the antique furniture lost its value, it was dumped onto the market by the young generation who inherited it. This thread is reflecting the fear that the same could happen to the antique violin market.

For what its worth, now that the very best violins are beyond the reach of the young generation,we may be seeing a new market emerging for undervalued German violins etc.. The best ones can still be purchased for very reasonable amounts and have potential for enormous growth.

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2 hours ago, uguntde said:

It is of course a matter of taste. I heard Perlman once live in the Liederhalle in Stuttgart playing Brahms, and almost an hour worth of encores, and I listened to lots of his recordings. And I find his tone intriguing. I am not talking about projection, there is an edge to the tone of his violin, as if it was very rich in overtones. I hear this even now when he plays Schindler's list.

 

Yes, it sounds wonderful - not only the sound, a lot of things, for which I don´t have words.

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8 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Sir.  I'm afraid I feel you may be wasting my time. Is it possible you just like to debate? I find it tiring.

I am sorry, but we could have been faster and less tiring, if you would not have done wrong claims ( to disturb my observation/ argumentation)  :

1) the just happened Rogeri-sale would be the auction record of G.B. Rogeri    - wrong

2) the Rogeri in Sothebys sale 2011 would have been a "grand pattern" while the last Rogeri in Tarisio sale would not be  - also wrong

3) the inch - numbers  and cm - numbers of the Rogeri in Sothebys 2011 would not "quite correlate" - wrong 

8 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

3) My words were "It's you who is using the said Tarisio sale to ask a question that implies the prediction of an impending market crisis (an implication I disagree with)."  I can't find the word "claim" there.  I offered my opinions in response to your question based on my observations and experience. When someone asks a question, I assume that's what they wish in response.  In your case, I may be mistaken. If you feel you know better, don't bother to ask... because, in that case, you're not really "asking" anything anyway.  Better to simply state your opinion.

I asked a question because of some observations. I have read all and also understood some answers and I am interested in these - in spite of your contrary impression. "My opinion" is totally unimportant. However : in the course of years I have learned some things about violins - so it would be better to only give me real arguments. The same I would try, if you ask me something about violin-playing.

And yes, your implication is right. I really should be more respectful to the real experts. I will try to get better in this point.

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

If you are one of those people who thrash out exerpts of the Saint-Saens violin concerto (or similar) right next to my head, whilst I am trying to concentrate, you should realise that I detest such people.

Could it be, that you detest violin playing in general ?  Until now I believed, that in your opinion sound doesn´t matter. Perhaps now I must recognize, that violin sound even disturbs you. 

One salvation could be the trade of silent-violins.

 

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11 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

Why you guys still fighting with a person who is either a troll or stupid enough to believe that one sale equals a trend?????? Why is this thread not locked?

Thanks for this special type of confirmation !  What you are admitting on that way: this was a bad sale. And this was one of the most beautiful instruments auctioned there since some time. 

You are allowed to make your own conclusions.

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33 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

.... or stupid enough to believe that one sale equals a trend?????? 

B.T.W. : Who can read, has advantages ! 

" Since one or two years I observe, that italian middle-class violins have difficulties in auctions."

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If the market has a problem then how does one explain this in December just a few months ago..........  ???

Violin bow by François Xavier Tourte sells for €576,600

https://www.thestrad.com/news/tourte-bow-demolishes-price-records-in-french-auction/7333.article

 

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27 minutes ago, Danube Fiddler said:

Thanks for this special type of confirmation !  What you are admitting on that way: this was a bad sale. And this was one of the most beautiful instruments auctioned there since some time.

I didn't interpret Michael as saying that at all.

Was this a "most beautiful instrument"? Only an identification and restoration expert would know, upon personal examination (not from typical photos).

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11 hours ago, Danube Fiddler said:

I am sorry, but we could have been faster and less tiring, if you would not have done wrong claims ( to disturb my observation/ argumentation)  :

1) the just happened Rogeri-sale would be the auction record of G.B. Rogeri    - wrong

2) the Rogeri in Sothebys sale 2011 would have been a "grand pattern" while the last Rogeri in Tarisio sale would not be  - also wrong

3) the inch - numbers  and cm - numbers of the Rogeri in Sothebys 2011 would not "quite correlate" - wrong 

In a previous post I wrote:

"As I said, I see a lot of fiddles. I stated what I recalled about the Sotheby's fiddle. I did not inspect the Tarisio fiddle. If it's the widths (LB approaching a 20.5 cm, etc., critical in determining the grand pattern) and were similar to the Sotheby's fiddle, I am in error... but others as well as I also mentioned that all this doesn't really matter.  Auction results on similar items vary due to many factors. It did sell within the estimate."

Maybe your not used to hanging out with people who haven't a problem admitting when they are in error? 

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