Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

A.D.'s new bench


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 152
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

On 11/4/2019 at 4:41 AM, scordatura said:

I am assuming that the above pic is the "juice". The color is really nice. Did you use a sealer before or after the juice application? According to the B & G Strad varnish book, sealer first (casein) then stain (oxidizer). Trying to get my method down. I plan to purchase Potassium and Sodium Nitrite rather than brewing the "juice". 

In that order, wouldn't you be oxidizing the casein as opposed to the upper cells of the wood? I haven't used casein in any application, but I'd be curious to know what it's polarity is like. Whatever goes between the wood and the oil varnish needs to account for the polarity of each if you care about adhesion.

Id also be concerned about the inevitable alkalinity of casein size, which is definitely going to interact with any organic pigments, such as the ever present madder lakes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

In that order, wouldn't you be oxidizing the casein as opposed to the upper cells of the wood? I haven't used casein in any application, but I'd be curious to know what it's polarity is like. Whatever goes between the wood and the oil varnish needs to account for the polarity of each if you care about adhesion.

Id also be concerned about the inevitable alkalinity of casein size, which is definitely going to interact with any organic pigments, such as the ever present madder lakes. 

I have been told by a successful luthier that that is his method. The oxidizer after the sealer helps prevent uneven staining and perhaps the oxidizer from going too far into the wood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, scordatura said:

I have been told by a successful luthier that that is his method. The oxidizer after the sealer helps prevent uneven staining and perhaps the oxidizer from going too far into the wood.

I believed you, I was just curious about certain elements of the workflow. I haven't had problems with blotchiness using oxidizers directly on the wood surface, unlike if one tries to lay down color without any priming/sealing, personally. I'm sure application is a factor. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...
On 9/9/2019 at 8:07 AM, Andreas Preuss said:

Very convincing looking antiquing!

Maybe just a bit slow.

Very cool! I know a local Mennonite carpenter who make reproduction French furniture and ages it outside in a pasture. He still believes that natural UV and weather do the best job of oxidation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/6/2020 at 4:49 PM, Advocatus Diaboli said:

0K @Don Noon, this ones for you. 

Thanks... I think.  I do have a reasonable guess about why this is "for me", but as usual, it would be nice for everybody if you said something about what these photos are of and what should be noticed about them.

I did notice the shiny black chamfer on the scroll.  It jumps out as being inconsistent with the rest of the antiquing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Oooh, cool... an old vs. new guessing contest with spectra instead of listening. 

The red curve has more features I'd associate with old instruments; (strong A0 and CBR, weak transition hill, strong "bridge hill" with fewer dropouts that starts rising at lower frequencies) the only thing that goes the other way is the B mode frequencies, which often are higher in new instruments.  But that's much more variable, I think.  Bottom line:  95% odds the red is old.

How'd I do?

I wish Curtin would let me try to sort out his old and new data by spectra, and see if that works better than listening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This set is much tougher... they both have many  of the "old sound" features, so I suppose they both could be old (you didn't specify what they are).  But, presuming this is another test of old vs. new:

The red line has a deep dip just under 1 kHz, which is extremely unusual (as in, I've never seen it) on a new violin.  Also, the B mode frequencies are relatively high, but the A0 is low, which is also something I have seen (the lower than expected A0 frequency) on old violins. The CBR also looks fairly strong. 

On the blue line, it looks like the B1- is split, rather than a separate, strong CBR.  And there's a relatively significant peak in the 900 Hz zone, hard to get rid of on new violins, but it also shows up fairly often on old ones.

So I'd put my money on the red line again being an old one, still about 95%.  The blue line is either an old-sounding new one, or a trick test with two old ones.

It would help if you could add minor gridlines in the plots, which would make it easier to tell the frequencies of the peaks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You didn't say whether the previous test was old/new or two old ones.  What was the blue line?

This latest set looks super-obvious, unless you somehow found an old one to look new and vice versa.

The blue line has all the features I look for in the "old sound".  A0 is strong in amplitude and lower than expected in frequency, given the higher B1+ frequency.  CBR amplitude is strong.  Transition hill is very weak, with a dip around 1 kHz.  Bridge hill is very strong, especially at the lower range (2kHz and below).  Likely to sound very clear, with round low end.  Looks like a Strad.

The red line looks new... lots of amplitude in the transition hill, and weaker bridge hill.  Should sound strong under the ear, but not as clean and clear, particularly on the E string.  Low strings should be loud and buzzy due to the strong midrange overtones, not the buttery round sound of the old one.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/30/2020 at 7:49 AM, Don Noon said:

The blue line has all the features I look for in the "old sound".  ...  Looks like a Strad.

The red line looks new.

6 hours ago, Advocatus Diaboli said:

The middle one was one new, one old, again.  So was the last set, although you were backwards on that one.  The blue line is old.  By far the nicest (most expensive) of the three old ones.

Maybe you should read more carefully... I was not backwards on that one.

Was it a Strad??

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...