Thunderflash

Violin bow stamped Albert Nurnberger, is it genuine?

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Hi all,

I came across this Violin bow stamped Albert Nurnberger. Was wondering if this is a genuine one or a copy? the frog looks almost too little worn for a 100 years old bow, and with a hint of red colour under.

The weight is 56g with everything on it.

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Edited by Thunderflash

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Without being a bow expert at all I'd say it is at least not one of those horrible Chinese made things with an impressive brand stamp. 

A few details are certainly right for a genuine Nurnberger bow. Screws in the underslide, head model and everything very accurately done. If you put the screw in the hole without frog and hold it upside down, does it fall down? 

In anycase it looks good enough to show it to a German bow expert. There are Daniel Schmitt, Klaus Gruenke or Peter Gabriel. 

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I’m a bit dubious about this bow.

i don’t recognize a serif brand without an umlaut - also Nuernbergers tend to have pinned underslides. Silver screws would be German pre 1930 but I haven’t seen them on Nuernberger.

i also find the fittings a bit rounded off - just doesn’t quite gel.

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On 4/14/2018 at 12:43 PM, Thunderflash said:

Hi all,

I came across this Violin bow stamped Albert Nurnberger. Was wondering if this is a genuine one or a copy?

The various side-view photos of the frog seem to have dissimilarities, (are they the same frog?) such that I am not inclined to trust you. It doesn't help that this is your first post, without any prior track record. 

Should you be some sort of aspiring scammmer (I can't tell yet), it might be more productive to post on less-knowledgeable web sites.

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As much as I respect your opinion, David, which is a lot, I'm not seeing what you're suggesting. There are some odd shadows cast in some of the photos that seem to give a distorted impression of the pieces. Could that be what you're seeing?

Note: admittedly I'm looking at this on my 4" diagonal iPhone screen.

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1 hour ago, MarkBouquet clearsky said:

As much as I respect your opinion, David, which is a lot, I'm not seeing what you're suggesting. There are some odd shadows cast in some of the photos that seem to give a distorted impression of the pieces. Could that be what you're seeing?

I can't rule lighting and other photo distortions out. There's nothing like having an actual object in your hands, and being able to look at it from a multitude of angles and lighting perscectives.

____________________________________

"Note: admittedly I'm looking at this on my 4" diagonal iPhone screen."

I'm looking on an 18" screen. Granted, the perspectives from various screen sizes can be very different.

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1 hour ago, nathan slobodkin said:

David,

What are you seeing here that worries you so much?

Differences in throat shape, and taper of the ferrule between the different photos. It's not that I couldn't be wrong, but in this business, I've learned that it's better to be suspicious. ;)

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Hi everyone,

Sorry to post such a thread in my very first post. I came across this bow from someone that was subbing in the orchestra briefly just now. As the orchestra is in South east Asia, I don't really have anyone nearby that I can trust to authenticate this bow, so I googled and posted it here. It was an opportunity to buy for myself, wasn't intending to sell it here in the forum.

The heavy flashlight in the last two photos was to show this hint of red colour in the frog , and the sign of sanding at the place where I put my thumb that I found very strange. There was no way to show it except with this flash on my phone. 

I didn't take the bow at the end. The balance and strength suited me very well, but it was a bit too light overall for me and the sound is a tad on the rough side. 

 

Thank you all and appreciated all you replies. 

Edited by Thunderflash
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11 hours ago, martin swan said:

I’m a bit dubious about this bow.

i don’t recognize a serif brand without an umlaut - also Nuernbergers tend to have pinned underslides. Silver screws would be German pre 1930 but I haven’t seen them on Nuernberger.

i also find the fittings a bit rounded off - just doesn’t quite gel.

Just had a look into the German bow book page 148. Franz Albert jun. (1854 - 1931) used a serif stamp with no Umlaut. The book states as well that he used Neusilber screws. The rest I'd say should be confirmed by the German bow experts.

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Yes but check the dates when he used this stamp as opposed to when he used screws rather than pins ... also the quality of the mother of pearl.

I'm not dismissing it completely but I don't think the features are internally coherent. I'm away from home otherwise I would be consulting the books - maybe my memory isn't correct.

Nurnbergers under 58 grams are rare as hen's teeth!

 

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1 hour ago, martin swan said:

Yes but check the dates when he used this stamp as opposed to when he used screws rather than pins ... also the quality of the mother of pearl.

 

I would second that.

The book shows an early Franz Albert jun. with a similar head and frog model, described as nickel screwed, but with the  first period stamp without serifs and Umlaut.

The bow itself looks ok for an  early  F. A. Nürnberger, but the stamp appears to be spurious. A possibility is that it was sold unbranded in the first place (not unusual), but restamped later.

The adjuster looks slightly too slender for the stick, it could be a later replacement, too, possibly artificially antiqued.

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24 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Yes but check the dates when he used this stamp as opposed to when he used screws rather than pins ... also the quality of the mother of pearl.

I'm not dismissing it completely but I don't think the features are internally coherent. I'm away from home otherwise I would be consulting the books - maybe my memory isn't correct.

Nurnbergers under 58 grams are rare as hen's teeth!

 

Martin, 

i see. Weight is actually a good point since the nurnbergers worked with utmost precisision. But still, are there Nurnberger fakes you know of? I know only really cheap crappy Chinese junk.

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I think my primary concern would be how well it plays.   I could care less if it were by Albert Nurnberger or his distant cousin, Wally, as long as it did the job well.

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3 hours ago, Digger said:

I think my primary concern would be how well it plays.   I could care less if it were by Albert Nurnberger or his distant cousin, Wally, as long as it did the job well.

Unless some one is trying to sell the bow in which case a fair price for a bow by Wally would be perhaps 20% of the price of an Albert Nurnberger.

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3 hours ago, Digger said:

I think my primary concern would be how well it plays.   I could care less if it were by Albert Nurnberger or his distant cousin, Wally, as long as it did the job well.

Exactly - isn’t that the question here?

The value doesn’t depend on how well it plays, but on whether it’s a Franz Albert or a Wally.

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On 4/16/2018 at 11:19 PM, Andreas Preuss said:

Just had a look into the German bow book page 148. Franz Albert jun. (1854 - 1931) used a serif stamp with no Umlaut. The book states as well that he used Neusilber screws. The rest I'd say should be confirmed by the German bow experts.

Ok guys, WHAT German bow book is this?

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