Protecting oil varnish during postage

[pjham]

Here in the wet tropics it can be hot.  (and humid)

Unfortunately  parcels in delivery vans and storage depots can also get hot.

Here is an "oil varnished" Chinese violin where the cloth wrapping stuck to the varnish during transport.

I know in an ideal world the varnish would be fully cured, the packages wouldn't get hot etc.

My question is, is there some sort of wrapping (for example cling film or grease proof paper) that would stop the material of the case or violin blanket from sticking to the varnish despite getting warm during postage?  Or clever packaging to prevent this?

[joerobson]

Parchment paper

[duane88]

Wax paper, too

[puckfandan]

I have a Josef Teclaw fiddle with dimples all over the back from bubble wrap, back is completely covered!

[nathan slobodkin]

Yeah. Parchment paper is available in restaurant or kitchen supply stores for keeping baked goods from sticking to trays. Very effective for preventing shipping damage to violins 

[MANFIO]

Is wax paper still the state of the art for this? Someone in another thread mentioned a non drying oil...

[nathan slobodkin]

20 minutes ago, MANFIO said:

Is wax paper still the state of the art for this? Someone in another thread mentioned a non drying oil...

parchment paper is not wax paper. I believe it is a  more or less inert form of silicone which doesn't seem to come off to contaminate things

[MANFIO]

1 hour ago, nathan slobodkin said:

parchment paper is not wax paper. I believe it is a  more or less inert form of silicone which doesn't seem to come off to contaminate things

Thanks Nathan! What do you use, wax or parchment paper?

[Guido]

On 4/14/2018 at 3:28 AM, pjham said:

Here in the wet tropics it can be hot.  (and humid)

Unfortunately  parcels in delivery vans and storage depots can also get hot.

Here is an "oil varnished" Chinese violin where the cloth wrapping stuck to the varnish during transport.

I know in an ideal world the varnish would be fully cured, the packages wouldn't get hot etc.

My question is, is there some sort of wrapping (for example cling film or grease proof paper) that would stop the material of the case or violin blanket from sticking to the varnish despite getting warm during postage?  Or clever packaging to prevent this?

... and may I add the question to all how one would go about "fixing" the varnish if at all possible?

[Michael_Molnar]

Parchment paper has a coating of silicone. It works.

[Davide Sora]

Full  suspension with foam pads, one holding the neck and one holding a stick inserted in the hole of the button. A third pad in contact with the head, with a piece of stiff cardboard to prevent the foam from wrapping the head. Of course, you need to remove the entire set-up.

[MANFIO]

19 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:

Full  suspension with foam pads, one holding the neck and one holding a stick inserted in the hole of the button. A third pad in contact with the head, with a piece of stiff cardboard to prevent the foam from wrapping the head. Of course, you need to remove the entire set-up.

Grazie tante Davide! Your approach is very conservative, some guys ship the instruments strung and mounted. I

[Davide Sora]

10 hours ago, MANFIO said:

Grazie tante Davide! Your approach is very conservative, some guys ship the instruments strung and mounted. I

Of course it is also possible to ship instruments with the set up, but the varnish must be perfectly dry and it is riskier (it is better to get a good insurance) and it requires much more expensive double packing to be safer (more packing cost and more shipping cost due to dimension).

If the value of the instrument is low, it is more convenient to take the risk and don't spend too much money and time on shipping, or at least that's what many luthiers and shop seem to think...

The downside to shipping with the set up removed is that you will then need a good luthier to put things back together, which is an additional cost as well, assuming a good luthier is available.

I prefer that customers come personally to take the instrument (so they can also try it out before taking it home), a short holiday in Italy is not that bad.

[Michael K.]

Like here. By "Hausberger" Also for Cellos. Holding only by Endpin and Pegs.

 

[Davide Sora]

 I put this box in a larger hard cardboard box, packing it all around with soft packing material, to insulate more from heat and to protect against impact shock.

Not for chinese violin...

[HoGo]

Nice box Davide! I remember some special shipping box that had some kind of silicone rubber foil, the violin was sandwiched between two layers of the foil pretty much floating inside a box. I can't remember name or producer...

BTW wouldn't creases of the parchment paper (isn't it the same as baking paper?) leave impressions in soft varnish?

I would ask if the OP is really oil varnish. I had similar experience with spirit varnishes only.

[ScotPiper]

Amati Auctions make the Amati Box, which is a brilliant solution. I inquired some time ago about purchasing boxes, and the price of the box was very agreeable (ordered in multiples of 10, I think). The cost of shipping the boxes to me (western USA) was incredibly high and made it not worthwhile.

I quite like Davide's solution.

[pjham]

8 hours ago, HoGo said:

Nice box Davide! I remember some special shipping box that had some kind of silicone rubber foil, the violin was sandwiched between two layers of the foil pretty much floating inside a box. I can't remember name or producer...

BTW wouldn't creases of the parchment paper (isn't it the same as baking paper?) leave impressions in soft varnish?

I would ask if the OP is really oil varnish. I had similar experience with spirit varnishes only.

The varnish was thick and soft.  It was advertised as oil but I suspect the same result would occur in a hot box wrapped in cloth no matter the varnish type.

I sanded the marks with micromesh which made the marks less obvious but didn't remove them.  I gave the violin to our local high school which they were very appreciative of.  I suspect that by now the varnish marks will be less obvious compared with the general wear of being loaned out to students.   In future I will try some abrasive powders, should I be silly enough to repeat this exercise.

I like the idea of the suspension boxes above and will suggest it if I ever get another violin from China.

[pjham]

22 hours ago, Guido said:

... and may I add the question to all how one would go about "fixing" the varnish if at all possible?

 

 

 

 

[MANFIO]

15 hours ago, Michael K. said:

Like here. By "Hausberger" Also for Cellos. Holding only by Endpin and Pegs.

 

Interesting Michael... How the endpin does not escape?

[MANFIO]

15 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

 I put this box in a larger hard cardboard box, packing it all around with soft packing material, to insulate more from heat and to protect against impact shock.

Not for chinese violin...

Nice box Davide? Do you use the endpin hole to give some "suspension" to the violin too?

[Davide Sora]

7 hours ago, MANFIO said:

Nice box Davide? Do you use the endpin hole to give some "suspension" to the violin too?

Yes, the endpin is inserted in a hole (keyhole like) made in the rigid cardboard glued to the foam pad. You can also use a short wooden rod inserted in a round hole in the cardboard, making it the right diameter so that it is not too forced into the endpin hole but enough to hold it in place. You just have to study a system to prevent the rod from being accidentally pushed inside the soundbox, because given its diameter it could be a nightmare to get it out. normally a few turns of masking tape in the protruding part can avoid this problem. Making a conical rod would not be a good idea because the wedge action could break the block in the event of a strong shock (violent direct impact on the bottom of the box).

[HoGo]

BTW, Davide, do you bend the plywood(?) lid and bottom(is it arched?)?

I wonder if side shock (fall on one side) wouldn't cause splitting of endblock as whole weight of violin is concentrated just at the pin?

Here is my shipping box (for mandolins). I make sure the varnish is well cured. I even shipped a matched pair in such box. I reinforce the edges with linen cloth (glued with white glue) and wrap the box in kitchen foil before packing with white paper. Only once I got very slight imprint of the cotton cloth into french polish (shipping during hot ummer) but that was easy to buff even with a bare hand and some pressure.

 

[MANFIO]

2 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

Yes, the endpin is inserted in a hole (keyhole like) made in the rigid cardboard glued to the foam pad. You can also use a short wooden rod inserted in a round hole in the cardboard, making it the right diameter so that it is not too forced into the endpin hole but enough to hold it in place. You just have to study a system to prevent the rod from being accidentally pushed inside the soundbox, because given its diameter it could be a nightmare to get it out. normally a few turns of masking tape in the protruding part can avoid this problem. Making a conical rod would not be a good idea because the wedge action could break the block in the event of a strong shock (violent direct impact on the bottom of the box).

Grazie mille Davide! Very usefull? Do you bend the plywood arched lid?

[Davide Sora]

10 hours ago, MANFIO said:

 Do you bend the plywood arched lid?

No, making these curved parts would be quite difficult without the proper equipment. These shipping boxes are produced by the cases maker Maurizio Riboni of Cremona, he had started making them many years ago even before starting with cases