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Hello everyone! I am new to Maestronet so I will introduce myself a little bit. I am a violinist, studied at Curtis and play concerts for a living, but I'm also a big instruments enthusiast! Love to read the Maestronet forum, get to know different instruments and follow the latest auctions. Here is a violin which has been in my family for a long time, and I have taken it to different people to get an idea of what it is. Most of them seem to agree that it is an 18th century Italian/Brescian violin, but I haven't been able to get any more info. Would love to hear your opinions! I used to play on it when I was a kid and the sound is beautiful and projecting, although it has a shorter stop length. 

Currently, I play on a JBV Guarneri model.

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On 6/9/2018 at 5:40 AM, Violinist1828 said:

Just got the results of the Dendro report! Turns out that the wood is from Italy from 1750s! Thought you guys would be curious. And it matches with wood used on Storioni, Bergonzi and even Strad from 1734! Now gotta find out who the maker might be... 

Who made the dendro?

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16 minutes ago, feelingfaceform said:

Who made the dendro?

I did.

The majority of the significant cross-matches are indeed with wood used on instruments made in Italy in the  mid-18th century.  The type of response I am seeing here is usually very specific,  meaning that it is very unusual to see it referring to instruments made outside Italy, apart from instruments made by Jose Contreras, and this violin is clearly nothing to do with Contreras.

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15 hours ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

I did.

The majority of the significant cross-matches are indeed with wood used on instruments made in Italy in the  mid-18th century.  The type of response I am seeing here is usually very specific,  meaning that it is very unusual to see it referring to instruments made outside Italy, apart from instruments made by Jose Contreras, and this violin is clearly nothing to do with Contreras.

Peter, is there insufficient data to locate that Italian forest? Do 19th and 20th century instruments and buildings etc not show a lineage that might link up to a specific location or general area?

I find it hard to believe that the forest no longer exists.

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16 hours ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

I did.

The majority of the significant cross-matches are indeed with wood used on instruments made in Italy in the  mid-18th century.  The type of response I am seeing here is usually very specific,  meaning that it is very unusual to see it referring to instruments made outside Italy, apart from instruments made by Jose Contreras, and this violin is clearly nothing to do with Contreras.

Peter, I can't comment on the violin in question but I'm intrigued by your implication that Contreras acquired his wood in Italy? Is that right? 

Glenn

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On 4/5/2018 at 1:11 PM, Violinist1828 said:

Hello everyone! I am new to Maestronet so I will introduce myself a little bit. I am a violinist, studied at Curtis and play concerts for a living, but I'm also a big instruments enthusiast! Love to read the Maestronet forum, get to know different instruments and follow the latest auctions. Here is a violin which has been in my family for a long time, and I have taken it to different people to get an idea of what it is. Most of them seem to agree that it is an 18th century Italian/Brescian violin, but I haven't been able to get any more info. Would love to hear your opinions! I used to play on it when I was a kid and the sound is beautiful and projecting, although it has a shorter stop length. 

Currently, I play on a JBV Guarneri model.

IMG_3099.jpg

IMG_3101.jpg

IMG_3103.jpg

IMG_3104.jpg

IMG_3105.jpg

IMG_3106.jpg

IMG_3107.jpg

Most people feel comfortable writing off everything a 19thC German so you and Peter R have thrown a spanner in the works by introducing some facts. LOL.  

It looks to be a lovely old fiddle with a very distinctive scroll which should help with ID. However, the volute is clearly pinned onto the peg box with two pins from the back. Has any comment ever been made about whether the scroll is original or not? Seems to be a key element for identification purposes.

Glenn

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On 6/8/2018 at 11:40 PM, Violinist1828 said:

Just got the results of the Dendro report! Turns out that the wood is from Italy from 1750s! Thought you guys would be curious. And it matches with wood used on Storioni, Bergonzi and even Strad from 1734! Now gotta find out who the maker might be... 

 

On 6/10/2018 at 2:46 PM, feelingfaceform said:

Who made the dendro?

 

On 6/10/2018 at 3:07 PM, Ratcliffiddles said:

I did.

The majority of the significant cross-matches are indeed with wood used on instruments made in Italy in the  mid-18th century.  The type of response I am seeing here is usually very specific,  meaning that it is very unusual to see it referring to instruments made outside Italy, apart from instruments made by Jose Contreras, and this violin is clearly nothing to do with Contreras.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 7:05 PM, GlennYorkPA said:

Most people feel comfortable writing off everything a 19thC German so you and Peter R have thrown a spanner in the works by introducing some facts. LOL. 

Holy moley!!  Somebody posted a real Old Italian on The Auction Scroll.  Is this a portent of The End Of The World?  :huh::ph34r::lol:

That's a lovely old fiddle.  How does it sound? 

Welcome to MN, V1828.  :)

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On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:05 AM, GlennYorkPA said:

Most people feel comfortable writing off everything a 19thC German so you and Peter R have thrown a spanner in the works by introducing some facts. LOL.  

Glenn

I am very amused. Just wondering why no-one has suggested yet, that the top isn't original to this Saxon box :-)

I'll be very keen to learn where exactly it is from. One doesn't see ffs like that on a flat arch very often.

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2 hours ago, Guido said:

I am very amused. Just wondering why no-one has suggested yet, that the top isn't original to this Saxon box :-)

 

Factually I was wondering from the start of this thread if we were looking at some photoshopped pictures here; especially the bottom view and the area around the button repair (?) seems to be blurred in a strange way, as if there would be something which should be hidden. In this way it's not so far off that the instrument could be composed, manipulated, or whatever. OTOH, there is much too less information given, f.i. about inside work, constructional details etc. to get a real idea at what we are looking here.

Furthermore is an ID question a matter for the Pegbox, not the Auction Scroll. Maybe all this are the reasons why the thread didn't get much serious attention

.

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Thank you all for your replies! I appreciate your ideas and discussion.

The photos are not edited or altered in any way, and I have been told by different experts that the scroll seems to be original to the violin, although, it has had some repairs done to it over the years, but all the repairs have been done at least 30 years ago, because thats how long my family has had the violin in possession.

The violin is in good condition and does not have any major damage, the sound it produces is unique and sweet!  I am in the process of setting up appointments with experts in NYC, in hope that they will be able to give me some answers. 

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On 6/19/2018 at 6:16 AM, Guido said:

I am very amused. Just wondering why no-one has suggested yet, that the top isn't original to this Saxon box :-)

I'll be very keen to learn where exactly it is from. One doesn't see ffs like that on a flat arch very often.

Why would you think that the back is Saxon?? Having seen close ups of the back and front, I see absolutely no reasons whatsoever to doubt that they are all by the same hand, and do not see anything Saxon about it.

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2 hours ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

Why would you think that the back is Saxon?? Having seen close ups of the back and front, I see absolutely no reasons whatsoever to doubt that they are all by the same hand, and do not see anything Saxon about it.

Sorry Peter. I tried to be funny and failed. I don't think the violin has anything to do with Saxony. I was (trying to) add to Glenn's statement that "Most people feel comfortable writing off everything a 19thC German so you and Peter R have thrown a spanner in the works by introducing some facts. LOL."

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"Discuss upcoming instrument auctions, both on and off line" is written at the top of this Forum, that's what's making me (and not me alone) always wonder why posters are putting ID questions of "old heritage" violins right here (and don't forget the last sentence of the header:ph34r:).

In the Pegbox there surely would have been much more resonance, including advices how to make more significant photos, whom to ask for more detailed informations etc. The OP pictures, if processed or not, are not offering the informations needed to make different comments than the already given, that I was trying to explain. I don't think that any serious comment can be made about the provenance by this pictures like this, if saxon, composed or not, or whatever.

But maybe this was a confusion by the OP only.

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2 hours ago, Blank face said:

............In the Pegbox there surely would have been much more resonance,............

Don't forget the dissonance, counterpoint, improvisations on the theme, and occasional enthusiastic outbursts of multipart harmony.  :lol:

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