G string sound problems

[Amateur Restorer]

Hi>

This my first question as I am an older amateur who for the last couple or so years restores usually violins/fiddles that are not considered worth restoration by a luthier.  I am really thankful to this site for feeding me much info concerning the repairs of violins during this time even though sometimes the opinions expressed differ widely.  But. all opinions are valuable lessons for we beginners.  However, I have not been able to find possible solution(s) for my current task.

So, here is the problem:   I was literally given an unlabeled violin about 30 to 50 years old which appeared complete except I notice the sound post was partially under the bridge.  I tuned it up and it sounded very bright but the tone was not pleasant.  I have a hearing problem and have trouble adjusting the sound post so I took it to my neighbor and he adjusted the sound post.  Wow!! the "e", "a" & "d" strings were exceptionally bright and had great sounding tone but the "g" string, though bright, sounded odd.  I guess the best way for me to describe it is to say that it sounded as if some of the sound was coming off the top of the violin rather than from inside the box.  Now, the violin really vibrates really well especially on the top.  I also noticed that the "f" sound holes are about 1.5mm or so too far away from the C Bouts. 

Of course here is the question:  Could it be because of the position of the "f" Sound Holes or What are some other reasons for the "g" string to sound as if it is partially coming off the top and not the box. 

Many thanks for reading and double that if you know any reasons why this occurs.

 

AR

[Jeff White]

Without haveing the violin here, you have everyone at a disadvantage in analyzing this. But, I'll stick my foot in my mouth................My first thought, based on what it started out as, and changed to after the sp adjustment (don't know what direction it went either...) is that the top is too heavy.  Measure the graduation, I would guess (at this point) that you have grad problems.   

[chungviolins]

Pls check wikipedia how to adjust sound post.

[Jeff White]

46 minutes ago, chungviolins said:

Pls check wikipedia how to adjust sound post.

Hmm, I assumed too much maybe in my post...................

[Amateur Restorer]

12 hours ago, chungviolins said:

Pls check wikipedia how to adjust sound post

Thank you for your reply.  My neighbor who reset the sp has made 20+ violins and has been setting sound posts for 50+ years and has been playing a fiddle since he was about 13 years old.  He has satisfactorily set many sp for me.

13 hours ago, Jeff White said:

Without haveing the violin here, you have everyone at a disadvantage in analyzing this. But, I'll stick my foot in my mouth................My first thought, based on what it started out as, and changed to after the sp adjustment (don't know what direction it went either...) is that the top is too heavy.  Measure the graduation, I would guess (at this point) that you have grad problems. 

Thank you for responding.  It well could be the graduation; but, I don't know how to properly check it.  Looking thru the "f" sound holes it looks OK except where both of the top plate's "c" bouts (at the bottom of the "f" sound holes or said another way the tailpiece side of the sound holes) looks very thick & grossly tapered toward the blocks and side??  I also noticed that the bass bar is about 14mm deep at the top of the  hole of the "f" sound hole & it doesn't began its taper until past that hole.  In other words one can see that part of the sound hole is completely covered by the bass bar.  Could that be blocking part of the sound from coming out of the sound hole.  From looking at various bass bars they seem to vary in greatly in shape and size. Sorry, I'm probably not making much sense.

 

AR

[Don Noon]

On 3/30/2018 at 7:40 PM, Jeff White said:

Without haveing the violin here, you have everyone at a disadvantage in analyzing this. But, I'll stick my foot in my mouth................My first thought, based on what it started out as, and changed to after the sp adjustment (don't know what direction it went either...) is that the top is too heavy. 

Also my first guess, as all the factory fiddles I've seen from that period have been bricks.

Simple check:  take off the chinrest and weigh the fiddle.  If it's up around 450g, you'll have your answer.

It would be better to post some photos and an audio clip, to have a better chance at a diagnosis.

[Amateur Restorer]

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 10:19 AM, Don Noon said:

Also my first guess, as all the factory fiddles I've seen from that period have been bricks.

Simple check:  take off the chinrest and weigh the fiddle.  If it's up around 450g, you'll have your answer.

It would be better to post some photos and an audio clip, to have a better chance at a diagnosis.

Don>

Many thanks for replying to my posts.  I weighed the violin less the tail piece and it came to 479 grams!!!  Almost 1 ounce over the 450 max.  I know 1 ounce does not sound like much; but, that much over mass on a violin it is a lot!!!   Wow!!  Such a shame too.  I know this is a cheap violin.  Nether the fingerboard nor pegs are ebony.  Not even pretty wood especially on the back, but what a volume of sound it puts out!!!    Said again the "E", "A" & "D" strings  surpass many better built violins.  (Of course, the opinion of what would be two amateur musicians in your eyes)  Anyway, I did put a new "G" string and it improved the "G" sound almost removing the "off the Top Sound.

I don't have a graduation caliper nor the experience to properly graduate the top.   Are there other options not requiring taking the top off because I have read of ruining the sound by taking off the top and/or trying to change the graduation~~~  If not, again many thanks for your time and may God bless.

 

AR

[David Beard]

Since the upper strings are speaking strongly and the low string weakly, you might have your friend try positioning the post just slightly more toward the center (just 1mm or so toward G string side).   This might give a better balance.  Simple thing to try.

[PASEWICZ]

This is pretty typical of a post that is too short and, as David Beard mentioned, not optimally positioned.  Certainly worth trying before you break out gouges and buy calipers.