Moulin

Inherited two violins but cannot find makers or identify

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Hello everyone,

I have two violins which were in the loft at my parents house, we cleared it when they passed away and I have only just started to go through it all.

We are all musical in the family but I have no idea who else played strings in the past so where these came from is beyond me. The first one which has taken me an age to take photos as advised and I hope I can manage to upload them correctly here, there is a paper label inside and it reads Gustav Steiner, it measures 61cm or 24" in total length and is worse for wear, I do not think it is of much value though it does have mop to the end of each peg and usually in instruments is a sign of quality, but anyhow,  it would be intriguing as to finding out more about it so any advice very welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Moulin
uploading new photos

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I almost forgot, inside the case is a bow by the name of BAUSCH, it is still operational but needs re hairing, here we are:

 

 

 

Edited by Moulin
uploading new photos

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Looks like 19th century German. Maybe the body is earlier than the neck/scroll. It has a sound post crack on the back that's a killer. Can you see any repairs on the inside of the back where that crack is?

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Usually new members with violins to ID comes with pictures all over the place. I think allthou we probably can’t award @Moulin with «best attic find of the year»-award, I think we can award him/her with «best first post photos of the year»-award.

Reg the fiddle I agree that the scroll looks to me like it is a «ordinary» second half of 19th century saxon violin, but don’t take my word for it if any of the experts in here chimes in saying something else. Too bad with that sp-crack in the back. 

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OK, the corners do not suggest built-on-back construction, and nothing about it looks unquestionably Saxon/Vogtland to me.  The label gives Teplitz (modern Teplice) as the origin, but I suspect that it's a shop label rather than a maker's label.  I feel that it's a "verleger" Mittenwald trade violin that wound up sold through a Bohemian shop, probably in the late 1800's. 

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4 hours ago, deans said:

Looks like 19th century German. Maybe the body is earlier than the neck/scroll. It has a sound post crack on the back that's a killer. Can you see any repairs on the inside of the back where that crack is?

Thank you for your advice, I can see no repairs inside, no additional pieces of wood, indeed the post was rattling around inside.

 

1 hour ago, Stavanger said:

Usually new members with violins to ID comes with pictures all over the place. I think allthou we probably can’t award @Moulin with «best attic find of the year»-award, I think we can award him/her with «best first post photos of the year»-award.

Reg the fiddle I agree that the scroll looks to me like it is a «ordinary» second half of 19th century saxon violin, but don’t take my word for it if any of the experts in here chimes in saying something else. Too bad with that sp-crack in the back. 

Thank you so much, though I did read how to post photographs.

 

1 hour ago, edi malinaric said:

- Cello bow that hasn't seen much use.

cheers edi

Thank you Edi, I do not think there is a Cello here as am sure I would have noticed it :)

 

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13 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

OK, the corners do not suggest built-on-back construction, and nothing about it looks unquestionably Saxon/Vogtland to me.  The label gives Teplitz (modern Teplice) as the origin, but I suspect that it's a shop label rather than a maker's label.  I feel that it's a "verleger" Mittenwald trade violin that wound up sold through a Bohemian shop, probably in the late 1800's. 

Certainly not. The usual Schönbach sold through a retail shop in K & K Teplitz/Teplice in the current Slovakia

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What leaves me wondering is the question, if the scroll could be slightly later than the body, which probably was constructed using a through neck. The same with the unflamed upper ribs, different to the highly flamed others. The model is similar to the more or less more simple patterns from early 19th Klingenthal, pictured f.i. by Seidel - could have been an interesting piece with the nice bottom in a former life.

But in the actual state all this considerations are obsolete.:huh:

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6 minutes ago, Blank face said:

What leaves me wondering is the question, if the scroll could be slightly later than the body, which probably was constructed using a through neck. The same with the unflamed upper ribs, different to the highly flamed others. The model is similar to the more or less more simple patterns from early 19th Klingenthal, pictured f.i. by Seidel - could have been an interesting piece with the nice bottom in a former life.

But in the actual state all this considerations are obsolete.:huh:

Ok Thank you Blank face, so are you saying it is ready to be used as kindling!

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Certainly not. The usual Schönbach sold through a retail shop in K & K Teplitz/Teplice in the current Slovakia

Thank you, Jacob.  :)  Rib shrinkage?  :huh:

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On 6.3.2018 at 10:14 AM, Moulin said:

Ok Thank you Blank face, so are you saying it is ready to be used as kindling!

No, I didn't say that nor did I mean it.

In the actually state, unoriginal parts and a devaluating, badly repaired sound post crack in the bottom , it's more or less obsolete to reason a long time about the exact origin. If it's playable as a musical instrument would depend of the stability of the repair (patched inside?) or future repair costs you would invest in it.

1 hour ago, antero said:

STEINER, Gustav Worked circa. 1908 Teplice Czech Republic. Work presently unknown. [Henley]...

As Jacob pointed out, he wasn't the maker, rather a dealer or repairer.

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On 06/03/2018 at 4:19 AM, deans said:

It has a sound post crack on the back that's a killer.

What is it that makes a soundpost crack in the back so much worse than one in the front ?

Maple as opposed to spruce ?

Hardwood versus softwood ?

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On 06/03/2018 at 12:21 PM, GeorgeH said:

I'd suggest that they were simply filed back.

Is it possible to file back in such a way as to make it look like it was made on an inside mould ?

I have tried to imagine mentally how that could be done.

 

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4 minutes ago, Delabo said:

What is it that makes a soundpost crack in the back so much worse than one in the front ?

The engineering types on this board can probably give a very technical explanation. But as I understand it, the force of the soundpost in a strung violin tends to push a back crack open, whereas the top its more neutral due to the bridge.

However I've seen repaired back SPC that seem to be quite old and stable, usually with a substantial patch.

In your case, since any repair would be for sentimental reasons, and not economic, it comes down to what you would want to pay to get your fiddle up and running.

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27 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Is it possible to file back in such a way as to make it look like it was made on an inside mould ?

I have tried to imagine mentally how that could be done.

 

Somebody seems to have "adjusted" the entire rib garland at some point.  Enhancing the photos beyond the cursory look for relieved corners that I first gave it, shows not only that the rib ends were cut and filed to begin with (and possibly more later), but that the back's been off as well.

Ribzoom001.thumb.jpg.e8ba45e8bf18b6f114c9bea349772a96.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Somebody seems to have "adjusted" the entire rib garland at some point.  Enhancing the photos beyond the cursory look for relieved corners that I first gave it, shows not only that the rib ends were cut and filed to begin with (and possibly more later), but that the back's been off as well.

Ribzoom001.thumb.jpg.e8ba45e8bf18b6f114c9bea349772a96.jpg

I would like to pretend that I could see that the backs been off, but I lack the required skill.

Is it that the distance from edge to rib is different at the corners ?

Shiny new varnish ?

Shiny glue ?

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Amazing you can tell all this just by looking- i am in awe of you all, i have wondered why anyone would go to such lengths to change things around on a violin which is nothing special.   At the moment it is not so sentimental as speaking to my family nobody has any idea of these whatsoever, it is a bit of a mystery. I shall change the photographs by the weekend and show you the other that has no label from what i can see. Thank you very much for your advice on this one, I think I shall let my brother have it so he can put it into auction..not that is shall make anything much there either!

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23 hours ago, Delabo said:

I would like to pretend that I could see that the backs been off, but I lack the required skill.

Is it that the distance from edge to rib is different at the corners ?

Shiny new varnish ?

Shiny glue ?

If you zoom the photos, it looks like the ribs are not in their original locations on the back.

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