Not sure which French maker I want to take the plunge on...

[ClefLover]

I am currently playing on an Arcus S8 and am wanting to take the plunge into a good wooden bow, but have had no such luck finding one traveling around, maybe I’m too picky.  I had the chance to try bows by Fetique and Bazin years ago, though was not in the situation to purchase at the time, and remember how effortless they seemed in nearly every technique I tried with them.  Since then, I have tried nearly a hundred bows but none of them remind me of those two that gave me such pleasure (possibly I’m a snob for all things French in the making). Maybe I should just stick to my Arcus but here are two that I am eyeing that remind me, at least by sight, of my previous experience with the makers.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/-Vtor-F-tique-a-Paris-fine-violin-bow-Victor-F-tique-ca-1920-/183069126176?_mwBanner=1

 

https://m.ebay.com/itm/A-fine-old-French-certified-violin-bow-C-N-Bazin-1880-Tourte-model-SUPERB-/251799495720

 

I have had success going on my gut feeling, and these two give me that warm tingly feeling.  Maybe that’s just nostalgia or possibly the large burrito I ate earlier.  I suppose my specific question is should I trust my gut and chase the nostalgia, or just be the sad, broken violinist that can’t seem to find a bow that gives me the warm fuzzies emotionally hoping that I stumble upon one in a shop?

 

 

[martin swan]

If the Fétique is "confirmed authentic by several experts" why doesn't it have a certifcate? i would never buy a French bow of this value which wasn't certified by Raffin, Guillaume or Salchow.

Also, why would you buy a bow with no hair and in need of significant restoration? You also don't know the weight.

The Bazin looks fine, but I hope Alex will forgive me for saying that's an absurd price for a nickel mounted swan head CN Bazin.

[fiddlecollector]

Aren`t most of his prices absurd???

[palousian]

I guess if you've got to have a French bow, whatever...you go.  But if I had $9K+ to spend on a bow, I would go to any number of great contemporary makers and try a bunch of bows.  When I got my current bow, the maker let me take 6 bows of different weights and try them, then he listened to me working with them, we narrowed it down to two (this process took several weeks).  Then when I settled on the one I really loved, he said I could go with that one, but he pulled out a bow he made after having listened to me playing the various bows...and somehow he had surpassed the bow I had chosen.  I would put this bow up against anything made by anyone, ever.  And If I had your budget, I would have had about $4500 left over.  BTW, the six bows I tried were all really nice, but they were quite a bit different from each other, so if you had the experience that this or that bow from Bazin or whomever was awesome for you, that really doesn't mean that any ol' bow from the same maker will be the same.  I think buying a bow from eBay without hair, etc. is madness.  Good luck!

[deans]

11 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

Aren`t most of his prices absurd???

Seems so, but I guess you never really know what he'll ultimately sell for unless you are genuinely interested. And if you hold your horses some might appear at auction.......

[martin swan]

20 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

Aren`t most of his prices absurd???

This one is absurder ...

I'm sure he accepts much lower offers, indeed I don't know if he really sells through Ebay or whether it's just a way of advertising the stock. In some he has remarkable examples which justify high price tags - that makes sense with a Vuillaume or a Pajeot bow, but I don't think it can apply to items with zero collectability.

[ClefLover]

Okay, so I messaged the Fetique seller and told him that I’m not totally comfortable  without a certificate, even though I bought my son a cello from him over a year ago which has been great.  He responded, “Sir, I’m barely comfortable selling you this bow without a certificate either.  I know this to be a Fétique, but that means nothing to you.  I have made arrangements to send it up to New York for a certificate and hair while it’s there.  Thought I might see if someone sees what I see in this bow before I sent it off.  If you wait, the certificate will only run 2.5%, a tiny price to pay for your comfort.  Cheers!”  

Seemed nice and straightforward...  I’ll just wait to see the certificate, I guess. I’m assuming he will just add on the cost of the certificate and hair, but how does the 2.5% work?  Does the certifier appraise and then charge the owner 2.5% of their appraisal?  Should I be worried about the price being unaffordable after the certification?  

I appreciate all of your replies, as a new user here, my replies are moderated and delayed...  I have been playing violin for nearly 40 years, and made many purchases for myself and my kids.  I do like local shops, but have found in the last 7-10 years that there is a lot of kindness with certain online stores and sellers, and that goes a long way, at least with me... Old or new, French or not, it is funny how the things that matter to me at my age get further and further away from money and “the best deal.”  

Edited February 14, 2018 by ClefLover

[mmmm]

If you tried a hundred bows, and none of them matched what you are looking for - it's hard to believe a stab in the dark could hit the bullseye.  Try a hundred more, you'll get there!

[mathieu valde]

You can get nickel Bazin with a good certificate In Paris for circa  3000 Eur and choose out of severals. I can sell you for a 4500 Eur   ( I mean I'll tooke a plane to Paris, buy a bow, spend a night there and after all that I'll even make a profit out of that deal) .

[Rue]

Yes.  You won't know how it handles until you try it.  

No two bows, even by the same maker, are going to feel exactly the same.  You might love the one and hate the other.

Unless you are convinced that just the thought of having a French Bow will overcome any real deficiencies it may have, or make an unplayable bow playable...I wouldn't.  Keep trying bows out until you find one that handles well for you.

[franciscus]

After you tried "nearly a hundred bows", you decided to go to eBay?

[Televet]

5 hours ago, franciscus said:

After you tried "nearly a hundred bows", you decided to go to eBay?

[fiddlecollector]

I may have failing eye sight but that Fetique looks like abeille wood(brasilwood), not usually seen on bows by fetique that are silver mounted. I may be wrong on the wood though from those pictures.

[Blank face]

The brand looks odd, too.

[martin swan]

Well it's getting cheaper the longer we discuss it!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtor-Fetique-a-Paris-fine-violin-bow-Victor-Fetique-55-2g-ca-1920/183076566775?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50073%26meid%3D944eb311647d4db38c9e5ff48b91289e%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D183069126176%26itm%3D183076566775&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

[Blank face]

Doesn't look like fernambuco in the new added close up photos. Hard to tell if it's silver mounted or highly polished nickel. I actually can't see a difference to a Mirecourt trade bow.

[martin swan]

Well, not to beat about the bush, I don't see anything of Fétique in this bow. The head chamfers are clumsy and far too close to the plane of the back of the head, the adjuster is not Fétique for sure, more like a Prosper Colas or inferior Mirecourt, the throat of the frog is much too shallow and the thumb projection too short and the wrong shape (though I suppose it could be filed down) - everything is quite inelegant.

[chrissweden]

Quote

In my experience as a collector and private dealer, this bow is authentic, and have heard the same sending photos around to several experts, but this is just hearsay and is not, unfortunately, an official certificate. I AM GIVING THIS BOW A FEW MORE AUCTION ATTEMPTS ON EBAY AT A VERY REASONABLE STARTING PRICE BEFORE I SEND IT UP TO NEW YORK FOR A CERTIFICATE. IN CASE YOU MISS OUT ON THIS BOW BEFORE IT IS SENT AWAY, REVISIT LATER AFTER IT HAS RETURNED WITH PAPERS, BUT WILL CARRY A HEFTIER PRICE.

Darn, should snatch it quickly! Even my ads are not this deceiving

[JoshGillan]

On 2/17/2018 at 11:03 AM, martin swan said:

Well, not to beat about the bush, I don't see anything of Fétique in this bow. The head chamfers are clumsy and far too close to the plane of the back of the head, the adjuster is not Fétique for sure, more like a Prosper Colas or inferior Mirecourt, the throat of the frog is much too shallow and the thumb projection too short and the wrong shape (though I suppose it could be filed down) - everything is quite inelegant.

Going to agree with Martin on this one, I've owned a Fetique and have played on a few different ones as well. What you have there, isn't something I'd call a Fetique and as an investment, I'd question buying anything without a certificate. 

Just my 2c worth. 

[Violadamore]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:00 PM, franciscus said:

After you tried "nearly a hundred bows", you decided to go to eBay?

Hey, anytime I consider getting a bunch, its where I look first.  And for $15 extra they'll stamp any name you want on them. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ten-Brazilwood-Violin-Bows-Nickel-Silver-Ebony-4-4-1-32-Perfect-Bulk-Order/311661422721

Cheaper than rehairs, even.

Not that I'm suggesting that my excursion has anything to do with the topic, of course, but just look at these lovelies........  They have 'em in wire wrap, too.  Real bargain. 

[ClefLover]

1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

Hey, anytime I consider getting a bunch, its where I look first.  And for $15 extra they'll stamp any name you want on them. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ten-Brazilwood-Violin-Bows-Nickel-Silver-Ebony-4-4-1-32-Perfect-Bulk-Order/311661422721

Cheaper than rehairs, even.

Not that I'm suggesting that my excursion has anything to do with the topic, of course, but just look at these lovelies........  They have 'em in wire wrap, too.  Real bargain. 

Omg! Sounds like a blast!! I could have a bow stamped with the name of each day of the week!!! Plus three more!!!!  And then order underwear with the name of each day of the week too!!!!!

[Violadamore]

19 hours ago, ClefLover said:

Omg! Sounds like a blast!! I could have a bow stamped with the name of each day of the week!!! Plus three more!!!!  And then order underwear with the name of each day of the week too!!!!!

What terrible taste!  The underwear, I mean. 

[sospiri]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 6:24 PM, ClefLover said:

Okay, so I messaged the Fetique seller and told him that I’m not totally comfortable  without a certificate, even though I bought my son a cello from him over a year ago which has been great.  He responded, “Sir, I’m barely comfortable selling you this bow without a certificate either.  I know this to be a Fétique, but that means nothing to you.  I have made arrangements to send it up to New York for a certificate and hair while it’s there.  Thought I might see if someone sees what I see in this bow before I sent it off.  If you wait, the certificate will only run 2.5%, a tiny price to pay for your comfort.  Cheers!”  

Seemed nice and straightforward...  I’ll just wait to see the certificate, I guess. I’m assuming he will just add on the cost of the certificate and hair, but how does the 2.5% work?  Does the certifier appraise and then charge the owner 2.5% of their appraisal?  Should I be worried about the price being unaffordable after the certification?  

I appreciate all of your replies, as a new user here, my replies are moderated and delayed...  I have been playing violin for nearly 40 years, and made many purchases for myself and my kids.  I do like local shops, but have found in the last 7-10 years that there is a lot of kindness with certain online stores and sellers, and that goes a long way, at least with me... Old or new, French or not, it is funny how the things that matter to me at my age get further and further away from money and “the best deal.”  

ClefLover, if you haven't got the message everyone here is trying to tell you, I will put it bluntly, avoid this seller.

[ClefLover]

Looks like I have to burn my “months-of-the-year” labeled underwear... those, I assume, are in poor taste too.

[ClefLover]

Oh yes, I gathered that, thank you.  The seller has taken down the listing and sent it to a shop in New York called “Salchow and Sons” for evaluation, restoration and hair.  Said it would be awhile before it is back and would update me with further details.  I guess we will see.