tango

Neck projection

Recommended Posts

Hi 

I glued a neck  (by error) with a high projection 22,5mm.
Usually I fit that at 20 mm without problems. Now I am thinking to fix it.
But...
¿What do you think is the effect of a such high projection?
Thanks in advance for your comments
Regards 
Tango

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you measuring from the end of the fingerboard to the top?  22.5 is not a high projection.  I set mine on a new instrument at 28mm.  Measured at the stop.  On an older instrument you might see 26.5 to 27.5 mm measured at the stop

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion is if you use what you have now for a lower belly height DG  things may be somewhat high.  That may work o.k. for a Strad influenced make though.

After some serious shaving of my fingerboards I'm coming in at 20.5 mm and 27.5mm for one and 20mm and 26.5 for the other build.  I use a 85* root angle.  Are they low?  Don't care, I like the way they feel and somewhat like the way they sound.  

If you had success with your other violin builds Tango you may want to go back to what worked then - or just move on to the next build.  To be safe, it may take 45 minutes to remove your existing neck, be careful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Davide
My overstand is 6,3 mm. There is no saddle at the moment.
The violin is in the white, with only a plaster of Paris with oil varnish in the case as recommended Roger Hargrave.
I think the main point is the strings angle ¿Isn´t it? I use about 158° but, guess , in this case, I will make a high saddle :huh:

Tomas
This measurements are taken with the glue dried.

Uncle Duke
As  the neck is dry I whant to string the instrumen and test but would like to hera experiences about high projection.

Thanks all for reply

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tango,

Thomas's question about whether this was the measurement of the neck when it was fitted but not yet glued is important.

If the measurements are different then the neck moved while being glued and your joint is now not getting a good wood to wood contact. I would look carefully at this joint and if you see any gap either between the neck root and the block or the bottom of the neck heel at the button then I am afraid that I would not trust the joint to hold and I would take steps to remove the neck and redo the joint. This might even involve sacrificing the neck and grafting a new one to the scroll or taking the top off and sacrificing and replacing the upper block before resetting the neck .

My condolences if this turns out to be the case but  if so you will only make this mistake once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, tango said:

Davide
My overstand is 6,3 mm. There is no saddle at the moment.
The violin is in the white, with only a plaster of Paris with oil varnish in the case as recommended Roger Hargrave.
I think the main point is the strings angle ¿Isn´t it? I use about 158° but, guess , in this case, I will make a high saddle :huh:

Tomas
This measurements are taken with the glue dried.

Uncle Duke
As  the neck is dry I whant to string the instrumen and test but would like to hera experiences about high projection.

Thanks all for reply

Were the measurements the same before and after gluing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No.

I guess I moved the neck some. I measured 21mm at the end of the fingerboard when gluing and don't remember if I checked before let violin drying over the bench

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

   Hi to all  maestronetmembers ! All the problems you have in making instruments are becose you abord in a wrong way the construction .

   The construction must start with:angle strings over the bridge  , The angle determinate the lenght of strings , tension over the body  also determinate the measurements of body; lenght stop,  archtop , belly high ,thicknesses of tablles back and front ,bridge high  ,saddle high taillepiece lenght  ,Neck angle  So all this determinate the easy response of the resonant body , playability is influenced  also by the shape of fingerbord, shape of bridge and in the end mastersetup of soundpost and bridge ! All this requires a lot of years of experimenting with professional players! Only în this way you will acive a high quallities  mastered sound .  Personall I start  ussing an angle of strings over the bridge  : 156,5 grades  wich determinate the rest of the measurements ! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I hope not ! Do not whant to ofend enybody ! Making  good instruments require  scientific aproach . Sience and knoledge established  by the old masters  !  There is no magical receipe or mistiical facts about it. Just aplied sience !  All the bests ' tango'!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indru, lots of roads lead to Cremona. I don’t think many will disagree fundamentally with your statements about the need for guidance in all geometric relationships.

just consider that the right numbers might be realized.... while a maker is focused on other overriding details entirely.

to the OP— take .4 mm off the thick end of the neck and put the fingerboard back down, or realize a “New Jersey Neckset,” and take the top off and take .5 mm out of the bottom of the neck heel cutout on the top plate and force the neck to it when regluing, after securely gluing down the C bouts first... 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Christopher Jacoby said:

Indru, lots of roads lead to Cremona. I don’t think many will disagree fundamentally with your statements about the need for guidance in all geometric relationships.

just consider that the right numbers might be realized.... while a maker is focused on other overriding details entirely.

to the OP— take .4 mm off the thick end of the neck and put the fingerboard back down, or realize a “New Jersey Neckset,” and take the top off and take .5 mm out of the bottom of the neck heel cutout on the top plate and force the neck to it when regluing, after securely gluing down the C bouts first... 

 

Chris , You wouldn't be concerned that the neck would simply pull out later?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think 30 mm is way outside the realm of what can work, but I'd also put emphasis on Nathans questions about what happened between the fitting height and glued-in-height, and how that might play into longevity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said:

Chris , You wouldn't be concerned that the neck would simply pull out later?

It’s not likely of the instrument is new and gluing surfaces are fresh and the neck is set well. It will give more overhang in the upper bout— an alternative if you’re confident handling fiddles a bit more like livestock is opening the four C bout corner on the top and cranking the neck down physically, changing the overhang in the Cs instead and gluing clamp by clamp to keep the system there, neck lowered 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all
Yesterday morning I decided the more affordable way (non invasive) to change the things to achieve to more common meassures.
I took off the fingerboard, lowered 1 mm the the top of the neck at the heel , not at the nut. Actual measure from bottom of the fingerboard to the purfling si: 5,3mm.
This lowered the overhang at the stop to 29,2 (aprox) and 21mm at the fingerboard.
I think this is not so bad. The joint at the boton looks well.
If the angle strings result is a little high yet I could rise a bit the saddle.
The only concern is if the neck was correctli glued (wood to wood whithout any gap).
Would this finish here or I will reset the neck one day? :huh:
Thanks all for comments and advices. Really you make me think and take smartest decitions .
Tango

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.