marco2112

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1 hour ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

 

You may not like the language, or the sentiment, but the reality is that a luthier has a right to use materials they are confident using (and can stand behind), ...

Yup, many of us have lots of experience with various setup products.  Some of what we end up using is based more on real life experience with high-level players, and less on Amazon reviews.

2 hours ago, uncle duke said:

It is attitudes just like this that make others pursue another instrument playing journey.

What is this "attitude" which is to be wedged into the discussion?

I had a Montreal Symphony player here over that last two days, and she is not only  a great player, but also a riot! Sure, some players need to put forth a hoity-toity presentation in a limited number of circumstances, but don't be fooled! Give them an environment where they can let their guard down, and that's where the fun starts. :)

14 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I see no motivation to restore something someone else has bought at auction, since I can buy at auction myself, just as I won’t restore anything for a dealer. I know some do, talk about „Road to Serfdom“

I'm thinkin' that if one charges a reasonable price for their time and talent for repairs or restorations, it wouldn't matter either way. I'm more of a reasonable guy, than a "revenge" guy.

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On 09/02/2018 at 6:42 AM, marco2112 said:

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Due to "rude responses"?

What about all the non-rude responses? Why are they being penalized?  So not fair!

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9 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

I spend time to hand select brides used in the shop, and select bridges for use on specific instruments that I feel suit them.  Make more sense?

Yes.

9 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

I'm not against restoring auction instruments if they are ones I've purchased, but restoring one for someone else just uses time I could be satisfying established clients or restoring something for myself.

This makes sense if you have more clients and work than you have time, but if you don't, and somebody has a decent violin that they want restored (no matter where they legally obtained it) and they want to pay you to do it, then why not?

9 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

I work on many instruments I haven't originally sold to the client, but most of my clients have a long history with me.  

I have a long history with the luthier I work with, so maybe I am spoiled. :) 

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On 2/10/2018 at 10:12 PM, Rue said:

Due to "rude responses"?

What about all the non-rude responses? Why are they being penalized?  So not fair!

Oh well, it looks like it got a life on it’s own now :)

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

I remember a lady who came a couple of years ago with a set of Larsen Strings that she had bought  on Internet. She asked me to put the strings on her fiddle for her (nothing else) because „I do it so nicely“. I haven’t seen her since.

I'd do it in a heartbeat, regardless of whether or not it turned out to have any profit or promotional value.

I also have removed major snow from neighbor's sidewalks over the last several days, which took me a whole lot longer than installing a set of strings. It really wasn't a big deal. :)

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23 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Yup, many of us have lots of experience with various setup products.  Some of what we end up using is based more on real life experience with high-level players, and less on Amazon reviews.

What is this "attitude" which is to be wedged into the discussion?

I had a Montreal Symphony player here over that last two days, and she is not only  a great player, but also a riot! Sure, some players need to put forth a hoity-toity presentation in a limited number of circumstances, but don't be fooled! Give them an environment where they can let their guard down, and that's where the fun starts. :)

I'm thinkin' that if one charges a reasonable price for their time and talent for repairs or restorations, it wouldn't matter either way. I'm more of a reasonable guy, than a "revenge" guy.

If you restore a broken instrument you have yourself purchacesd at auction (or elsewhere) you are engaging in two economic practices simultaneously. You are doing 1. a job of craftsmanship and 2. creating a value added. If you do this, you can use both to finance your life syle/pay your morgage etc. When repairing for a third party, you can only sell your hours work repairing, and you give the value added away for nothing. Quite apart from all that, I have plenty of projects of my own, which get put way back in time, if I have to pack away my own stuff and do someone elses all the time.

 

I sometimes wonder, if this isn't one reason why there are occasional threads about how violin making is a hard Job to earn a living at.

 

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3 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Quite apart from all that, I have plenty of projects of my own, which get put way back in time, if I have to pack away my own stuff and do someone elses all the time.

 

Sounds like one has reached a point where the hourly rate should be increased, or at least differenciated for different types of jobs. Or do "fixed price"-offers on stuff in this category you know will take little time.

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16 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I'd do it in a heartbeat, regardless of whether or not it turned out to have any profit or promotional value.

I also have removed major snow from neighbor's sidewalks over the last several days, which took me a whole lot longer than installing a set of strings. It really wasn't a big deal. :)

 

I remember discussing this lady with Viennese colleagues. One suggestion was that I should save her number in my phone memory, so that I could know when not to answer.

 

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The bridge blank in the now deleted OP looked like a perfectly legitimate Aubert De Luxe. Probably a bit OTT for the fiddle in question but we don’t know.

The OP himself is surely baffled to find that fitting a bridge is such a hot issue, and I do think a bit of patient explanation from the shop in question would have been in order.

Of course anyone is entitled to turn down a job which is unrewarding or undignified, but I would love to be so secure in my business that I can afford to alienate a customer and their entire network of friends, acquaintances, family members and facebook buddies!

Maybe one day (Irony alert)

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25 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Yes.

This makes sense if you have more clients and work than you have time, but if you don't, and somebody has a decent violin that they want restored (no matter where they legally obtained it) and they want to pay you to do it, then why not?

 

Of course... and especially if one has luthiers working for them (capacity).  I don't...

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20 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I'd do it in a heartbeat, regardless of whether or not it turned out to have any profit or promotional value.

I also have removed major snow from neighbor's sidewalks over the last several days, which took me a whole lot longer than installing a set of strings. It really wasn't a big deal. :)

I do admit to semi charitable work, especially if they are nice folks. :-)

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

If you restore a broken instrument you have yourself purchacesd at auction (or elsewhere) you are engaging in two economic practices simultaneously. You are doing 1. a job of craftsmanship and 2. creating a value added. If you do this, you can use both to finance your life syle/pay your morgage etc. When repairing for a third party, you can only sell your hours work repairing, and you give the value added away for nothing. Quite apart from all that, I have plenty of projects of my own, which get put way back in time, if I have to pack away my own stuff and do someone elses all the time.

 

You are the one who can choose your priorities. If your labor rate or profit margin for customer repairs is lower than  what you can make spiffing up auction instruments,  who is to blame?

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6 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The bridge blank in the now deleted OP looked like a perfectly legitimate Aubert De Luxe. Probably a bit OTT for the fiddle in question but we don’t know.

The OP himself is surely baffled to find that fitting a bridge is such a hot issue, and I do think a bit of patient explanation from the shop in question would have been in order.

Of course anyone is entitled to turn down a job which is unrewarding or undignified, but I would love to be so secure in my business that I can afford to alienate a customer and their entire network of friends, acquaintances, family members and facebook buddies!

Maybe one day (Irony alert)

Yup,  OP got scared, and I don't blame him.

 

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2 minutes ago, martin swan said:

 

Of course anyone is entitled to turn down a job which is unrewarding or undignified, but I would love to be so secure in my business that I can afford to alienate a customer and their entire network of friends, acquaintances, family members and facebook buddies!

Maybe one day (Irony alert)

I suppose we can all be virtual jerks on the internet, I'd imagine in real life when the customer calls or shows up that even the most jaded of us handles outside parts tactfully.  When such things happen to me, I go out of my way to be as polite as humanly possible.  I bet even Jacob, in real life, is a lovable teddy bear. 

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

I see no motivation to restore something someone else has bought at auction

Fair enough. But some luthiers still count restorations at a decent hourly rate as part of their business model. Some are even happy that a customer got what he wanted, that they could not find, or did not want to stock.

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22 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

I do admit to semi charitable work, especially if they are nice folks. :-)

Sometimes I'm afraid that being a too nice guy is a mistake. I'm looking at a slowly growing heap of cheap bows from our music school, brought here as "please rehair them, whenever you'll find the time".:mellow:

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3 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Sometimes I'm afraid that being a too nice guy is a mistake. I'm looking at a slowly growing heap of cheap bows from our music school, brought here as "please rehair them, whenever you'll find the time".:mellow:

You can be still nice but set limits.

It's okay to say "no" .

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My primary violin is the pride and joy of my life. Suppose I had ordered a custom set of matching pegs, tailpiece, and endpin from Eric Meyers and since I am not able to install them myself would have to rely upon someone highly skilled to do this work for me. Would all of you famous luthiers refuse to do this work because I purchased the supplies from somewhere else? 

 

i can certainly sympathize with OP  Marco and his frustration  since I can see the possibility that he had scoured through lots of bridges for one pretty one that appealed to him. I also appreciate pretty wood  whereas I think that looks do not matter that much to most players.

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I have likely asked this before...<_<

I just see different levels of luthiery... and I don't understand why they all can't be equally valid. :blink:

Now - I have my "good violin" made by...and maintained by my wonderful neighbourhood luthier. All good!

I also have another "favourite" violin I use as a back-up, for fiddling workshops and for outdoor use. It was a $177 eBay win from a Chinese company.

What am I supposed to do if it needs repair?

Not repair it? Toss it? I would hope my luthier would be as willing to look after it as my good one.

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:lol::lol::lol:  There I was, innocently surfing MN, and saw this poor little post that had been sitting for hours with only 12 views, and no answers............. :lol::lol::lol:

I had no idea that this was such a hot-button issue with some people!  First, let's consider a hypothetical.  You are a novice violin owner/player.  Being interested in violins, you lurk at MN to learn stuff.  One thing you learn is that an entire range of deluxe bridges that you never heard of exists, and that all the experts agree that using better bridges makes a positive difference in sound.  Since your corner general-purpose music shop only has low-end bridges, you purchase a better one online, and then go see your usual local luthier-cum-clarinet-pad-changer-cum-amplifier-vendor-etc-etc to offer them their posted rate to fit it for you.  What in the Hell have you done wrong ( besides go to a probably mediocre "bridge-sander" to do this instead of learning to cut it properly yourself)?

If someone I know asks me to fix a crack or do a setup for them, I certainly wouldn't be annoyed if they'd gotten the fiddle from Tarisio, or contributed a Stamm or something that they'd had and been scared to try to fit themselves.  WTH, they're paying me good money, and showing trust in my (still evolving) skills.  What if you were in the building trades, and approached to install designer or custom components provided by the general contractor, or the homeowner?

Jacob, some of your comments surprise me.  In your exalted position in the trade, I can understand you telling some plebeian to "piss off" for asking you to fit a bridge or install strings they came in with, but you seem to be saying that you refuse to work on anything bought at auction.  Where did the two famous Franks come from, and what if someone came in with their Strad just gotten from Brompton's or wherever?

Oh, and a word to all you lurkers out there reading this.  See, if Marco had read and taken my often posted advice, and learned to do their own maintenance, they might be posting proud photos of their newly cut bridge right now, instead of applying bandages to their much-bitten posterior. 

Some of you have probably just done an excellent job of frightening a number of lurkers into my camp.  Thanks. :)

 

 

 

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I will also say that about ten years ago I had a new bridge installed and my luthier allowed me to pick the bridge with the prettiest grain of what he had.  Most people probably do not even scrutinize a bridge that much but it was a fun and memorable experience with this guy humoring me and letting me pick my favorite.

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2 minutes ago, Jeff Jetson said:

I will also say that about ten years ago I had a new bridge installed and my luthier allowed me to pick the bridge with the prettiest grain of what he had.  Most people probably do not even scrutinize a bridge that much but it was a fun and memorable experience with this guy humoring me and letting me pick my favorite.

Yes.

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53 minutes ago, Jeff Jetson said:

My primary violin is the pride and joy of my life. Suppose I had ordered a custom set of matching pegs, tailpiece, and endpin from Eric Meyers and since I am not able to install them myself would have to rely upon someone highly skilled to do this work for me. Would all of you famous luthiers refuse to do this work because I purchased the supplies from somewhere else? 

 

 

That would be an impressive phone call, or email for sure... and I would be absolutely elated. I'd imagine that Eric would help you get a diameter of peg that would allow for fitting. Given the choice,  I would prefer to see the violin in person, and order the fittings after consulting with both you and him.

 In reality, the fittings that have shown up unannounced in the past have been at the extreme other end of the spectrum, or the shafts have been of a very small diameter while the existing holes are rather large.  Back when I worked for large firm, customers would drop in unannounced with such things - careful and kind explanation of their faults always alleviated hard feelings. These days, I tend to have relationships, or referrals, with the musicians I serve.  Conversations about fittings take place well in advance of their install.  

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40 minutes ago, Rue said:

You can be still nice but set limits.

It's okay to say "no" .

My therapist is saying the same. I'm trying hard with my (adult) children, mostly without success.;)

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