uguntde

Cello ID

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There is a cello on sale by a Alan Charles (1994), made in England. I can't find any maker with this name and I am increasingly convinced it is Chinese, probably imported in the white, varnished with shellac varnish, somewhere in Europe.

The label bright white paper with some logo, Alan Charles written by pencil.

What are your thoughts?  

Cello Alan Charles Back SCROLL.jpg

Cello Alan Charles FR SCROLL.jpg

Cello Alan Charles L Scroll.jpg

Cello Alan CharlesBack Det.jpg

Cello Alan CharlesDET FR.jpg

Cello Alan Charles BACK.jpg

Cello Alan Charles FRONT.jpg

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I think your on track, but maybe Bubenreuth or Reghin too. Looks like its potentially a nice serviceable instrument.

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What more does the seller say about it? Is he claiming its a hand made instrument by Charles? Or a "shop" instrument? Or a trade instrument sold through a shop?

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Ask him if it's Chinese or German. He should say so. A colleague imports good German bodies to Texas, extensively reworks and varnishes them and sells them-with Pirastro strings!- for about 2,000 dollars and says he makes a good profit at that price.

sounds like your price is several hundred percent too high.

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18 hours ago, deans said:

I think your on track, but maybe Bubenreuth or Reghin too. Looks like its potentially a nice serviceable instrument.

I agree - the wood is quite plain for a Chinese instrument, and the workmanship and varnish likewise.

But it's a trade instrument of some sort. I wonder if it isn't a Bubenreuth kit. i've come across a few things like this where an amateur luthier has made something out of parts, glued it all together, varnished it after a fashion and produced a label.

So in this case the seller would not be committing any kind of fraud by selling it as an "Alan Charles", just over-pricing it by around 100%. If the seller isn't that knowledgeable about instruments, it could be an honest mistake.

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The dealer thinks it is an English instrument, it is being sold on comission. A friend who has it on approval showed this to me and asked for some advice. It is well-built and sounds good, but the price is too high.

It seems that in the violin trade almost anything goes these days.

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Just now, martin swan said:

I agree - the wood is quite plain for a Chinese instrument, and the workmanship and varnish likewise.

But it's a trade instrument of some sort. I wonder if it isn't a Bubenreuth kit. i've come across a few things like this where an amateur luthier has made something out of parts, glued it all together, varnished it after a fashion and produced a label.

So in this case the seller would not be committing any kind of fraud by selling it as an "Alan Charles", just over-pricing it by around 100%. If the seller isn't that knowledgeable about instruments, it could be an honest mistake.

I think it is an honest mistale, just in case someone googles the dealer. They are not dishonest.

I agree that Bubenreuth is more likely than Chinese. The difference is mainly in the finish as a modern Bubenreuth kit may also be imported from China in the white.

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To be honest will all this kind of stuff the pricing seems to relate more to the spurious name on the label than the quality of the instrument. Every violin shop these days seems to have a "special relationship" with some spurious Budapest maker or otherwise unknown luthier, but these generally seem to be no more than brand names for factory instruments bought in the white by the bag-load.

In general I think people would be much better off buying a Jay Haide.

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On ‎26‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 10:31 AM, uguntde said:

There is a cello on sale by a Alan Charles (1994), made in England. I can't find any maker with this name and I am increasingly convinced it is Chinese, probably imported in the white, varnished with shellac varnish, somewhere in Europe.

The label bright white paper with some logo, Alan Charles written by pencil.

What are your thoughts?  

 

I find it virtually impossible to judge who made a brand new (quite good) Cello, unless I buy it from the person who actually made it,(not diffucult!) which is perhaps why I deal almost exclusivly with instruments from the 18th & 19th C. where I do have a chance of telling them apart. I don’t see why it should have been varnished or otherwise manipulated in England or anywhere else, since you can take (for instance) a Roumanian Cello that looks just like that straight out of it’s cardboard box.

P.S. I don't see why a brand new Cello should supposedly be from the 90's, ie. some 30 years old either

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10 hours ago, martin swan said:

To be honest will all this kind of stuff the pricing seems to relate more to the spurious name on the label than the quality of the instrument. Every violin shop these days seems to have a "special relationship" with some spurious Budapest maker or otherwise unknown luthier, but these generally seem to be no more than brand names for factory instruments bought in the white by the bag-load.

In general I think people would be much better off buying a Jay Haide.

I agree

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