ID bow swan head

[jandepora]

This time I need help with this bow. It looks to me Germany, but the not very well aligned pins and the cut of the ferule make me think that maybe I am wrong.

What is your opinion

[fiddlecollector]

Its a French `tourte` model they were produced by many workshops such as Bazin, Morizot, Cuniot-Hury, etc...  Its abeille wood. looks rather standard grade, the better ones are usually heavily stamped TOURTE.

[uncle duke]

I thought French too but why no chamfering around the tip area - very un-Cuniot/Bazin like.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

6 hours ago, uncle duke said:

I thought French too but why no chamfering around the tip area - very un-Cuniot/Bazin like.

Swan head.

 

[jandepora]

9 hours ago, uncle duke said:

I thought French too but why no chamfering around the tip area - very un-Cuniot/Bazin like.

Maybe because the head plate is unfinished.

Then, it would be difficult to ascribe to any workshop or maker?

What about the age? 

How works this kind of bows?

 

[Violadamore]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Swan head.

 

Lovely, but doesn't look a bit like him. 

[martin swan]

More geese than swans now live, more fools than wise ....

As Jeffrey pointed out, the rounded rear chamfers are a feature of this head shape. Fiddlecollector once posted some great photos of swan heads showing how many makers had followed this model.

I suppose the majority of swan head bows I have seen are by Charles Nicholas Bazin. This one is a lower level trade Mirecourt bow, but still quite pretty.

[Violadamore]

Just now, martin swan said:

More geese than swans now live, more fools than wise ....

As Jeffrey pointed out, the rounded rear chamfers are a feature of this head shape. Fiddlecollector once posted some great photos of swan heads showing how many makers had followed this model.

I suppose the majority of swan head bows I have seen are by Charles Nicholas Bazin. This one is a lower level trade Mirecourt bow, but still quite pretty.

Touché, Martin!  A Swan quoting Gibbons, even. 

I'd wondered when you'd comment on this bow.  Informative, as usual. 

[uncle duke]

1 hour ago, jandepora said:

Maybe because the head plate is unfinished.

Then, it would be difficult to ascribe to any workshop or maker?

What about the age? 

How works this kind of bows?

 

I understand now Jeffrey.

Well there's always Lamy and the entire Bazin family and workers-  all I can do is make guesses.

How about 1920's to 1960's - just a guess friend.

61 - 62 grams would be tough to beat especially if balance point is spot on for comfort.  It's hard to tell from here.

I didn't notice any silver winding.  Is  there any?  

[jandepora]

On 12/1/2018 at 11:37 PM, uncle duke said:

I understand now Jeffrey.

Well there's always Lamy and the entire Bazin family and workers-  all I can do is make guesses.

How about 1920's to 1960's - just a guess friend.

61 - 62 grams would be tough to beat especially if balance point is spot on for comfort.  It's hard to tell from here.

I didn't notice any silver winding.  Is  there any?  

It has this kind of lapping. What material could be?

It looks like it has a name in the stick but too erased. Any idea?

[uncle duke]

2 hours ago, jandepora said:

It has this kind of lapping. What material could be?

It looks like it has a name in the stick but too erased. Any idea?

Not sure about the lapping.

I too tried to see remnants of lettering - no idea either.

[fiddlecollector]

There are nearly always stamped TOURTE no matter which shop/maker made them. I can can see a very faint impression of a stamp which is probably tourte. They are usually quite heavily stamped in the better quality ones.

The lapping is possibly baleen (so called whalebone ) but may be a synthetic version. I get a general impression of a Morizot freres workshop bow but some of these are hard to tell apart.

[jandepora]

Here I have another swan head model bow. It has no mark. I think it looks better than the first posted here.

What do you think?

[martin swan]

To my eye, similar quality Mirecourt, also not pernambuco ...

[Blank face]

On 1/12/2018 at 7:10 PM, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Swan head.

 

I'm confused.

Is it called "swan head", or "swan neck" or even "swan neck head"?

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Swan head is the term I see used most often in English, but I suppose you can start a new trend.    Which term do you like best?

[fiddlecollector]

Its more correctly swan neck, the french use col de cygne as the description meaning swan collar  so neck is more appropriate but either term is used often when talking about these type of bows. Some look more swan like than others  and more or less rounded at the back of the head,etc...

[Blank face]

Martin is supposed to be the most qualified person to set a trend here.

In German there's only the term Schwanenhals (neck), too, for this model, and a quick google research produces actually more results for swan neck bow.

BTW, I can't see any real affinity neither to the bird's neck nor head, if any than more to a duck's tail.

 

[Wood Butcher]

[Jeffrey Holmes]

13 hours ago, Blank face said:

Martin is supposed to be the most qualified person to set a trend here.

Hahahaha!

 

[duane88]

4 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Hahahaha!

 

So, it is now a Martin Swan Head?

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, duane88 said:

So, it is now a Martin Swan Head?

Like! 

I've been slightly confused by this whole thread.   Isn't a "swan head" bow one of those graceful baroque and transitional things, like the one in the middle below?

[martin swan]

2 hours ago, duane88 said:

So, it is now a Martin Swan Head?

Would hate to suffer a head break, though i suppose I could always get myself splined ...

[Blank face]

55 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Like! 

I've been slightly confused by this whole thread.   Isn't a "swan head" bow one of those graceful baroque and transitional things, like the one in the middle below?

Or it might be named after Edith Swanneshals, the woman who identified King Harold's body at Hastings? (related to you, Martin?)

http://blog.english-heritage.org.uk/1066-women-behind-game-thrones/

[Felefar]

3 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Like! 

I've been slightly confused by this whole thread.   Isn't a "swan head" bow one of those graceful baroque and transitional things, like the one in the middle below?

Isn't that called a pike head?