Creating the template that is used with the form.


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After building the form, in this case, the Forma G, to make a copy of the Messiah, how does one create the template for the corner blocks and top/bottom plates for tracing.

I have the plastic material, and a copy of the Strad poster for the Messiah violin. My question is, what's the method for creating this tracing template? What measurements do I use etc?

The messiah isn't symmetric, and neither is my form. So I don't want to make a symmetric tracing template, like the kind you flip and use on both sides. So naturally, I'll need to make it all one piece.

Just wondering how I would start this.

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Put the form on a piece of paper. Use either a washer or caliper with a pencil to trace an extension (plate edge), say 3.5 mm to represent the plate edge. Adjust the corners according to a photo or poster (using a compass or freehand). If this looks good, do the same on your wood plate. Leave extra material for saw wandering and cleanup.

 

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32 minutes ago, Michael_Molnar said:

Put the form on a piece of paper. Use either a washer or caliper with a pencil to trace an extension (plate edge), say 3.5 mm to represent the plate edge. Adjust the corners according to a photo or poster (using a compass or freehand). If this looks good, do the same on your wood plate. Leave extra material for saw wandering and cleanup.

 

Couldn't the template used to create the form be used in the same way as it has the corners intact?  Unless the insets for the blocks have not already been cut from the form in which case it's six of one, half dozen of the other (though the washer follows the form better than it would the template).

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Just now, Julian Cossmann Cooke said:

Couldn't the template used to create the form be used in the same way as it has the corners intact?  Unless the insets for the blocks have not already been cut from the form in which case it's six of one, half dozen of the other (though the washer follows the form better than it would the template).

Template doesn't have the corner blocks.

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7 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Are you wishing to make a complete asymmetric outline template,  templates to cut the corner and end blocks to shape, or templates for the corners of the top and back plates?

Looking to make it all in one. Probably be the easiest. The problem is, it doesn't seem like the Messiah poster has the corner block pattern. I used Addie's Forma G pattern to make the form.

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34 minutes ago, Wilgeo said:

Looking to make it all in one. Probably be the easiest. The problem is, it doesn't seem like the Messiah poster has the corner block pattern. I used Addie's Forma G pattern to make the form.

Addie made a lot of form drawings (thanks Addie).  Try this one Forma G update-Tabloid (1).pdf     The simplest way may be to make a template for each block.  You can check to see if your form and corners match the poster outline allowing for ribs and overhang.  The poster gives you the plate outline.  Getting the corners right is a big problem for novices (myself included).  For the corners of the plate you could make a template of the c-bout and corner area to overlay your plate overhang that you draw around your rib assembly onto your plates.  I use Plexiglas so I can see my lines on the wood through the template.

-Jim

 5a47e6dfc20a7_Cornertemplate.thumb.JPG.750521e65e9a569ef06a2c49cff10699.JPG

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Really your form is going to determine the outline. You need only make four corner templates to mark out the blocks. A complete outline probably won't match the finished ribs anyway.

When I mark out the blocks and cut the curves, I use a little slip of 1mm 3 ply model making plywood, like a mock up rib, to check my shape. It bends easily and evenly, and I can see if everything is flowing and fitting well. Then when the ribs are done, I mark out my outline directly from them.

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1 hour ago, Jim Bress said:

Addie made a lot of form drawings (thanks Addie).  Try this one Forma G update-Tabloid (1).pdf     The simplest way may be to make a template for each block.  You can check to see if your form and corners match the poster outline allowing for ribs and overhang.  The poster gives you the plate outline.  Getting the corners right is a big problem for novices (myself included).  For the corners of the plate you could make a template of the c-bout and corner area to overlay your plate overhang that you draw around your rib assembly onto your plates.  I use Plexiglas so I can see my lines on the wood through the template.

-Jim

 5a47e6dfc20a7_Cornertemplate.thumb.JPG.750521e65e9a569ef06a2c49cff10699.JPG

That's exactly what I was looking for! Thank you so much!

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I think you might be doing it backwards.  Usually you create the template from the poster .  Then you create the form from the template.  There are many ways to make templates and forms.  Here are some pictures to illustrate one method.  To create the template from the poster I use a precise photocopy of the back and pick the "best" half.  This is then glued a 1/8" piece of plywood.  After it is cut out I reduce the margin by ~3.5 mm from which I make my symmetrical  form using two 1/2" pieces of plywood using the template and a flush cut router bit.   There are some small adjustments that need to be made to make the corners "look" right,  but that is essentially one method

poster.png

3pieces.png

MVC-019S.JPG

cutout.png

finished.png

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I'm using addies Forma G template for my form. As it was the form used for the Messiah, which I have the poster for. I'm using a laser cutter for precision. I have my form made, I need to know how to get the form for the corner blocks. For whatever reason, the Messiah drawing from the poster doesn't line up at all with Addie's forma G. So not sure where to go with all this.

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8 hours ago, Wilgeo said:

I'm using addies Forma G template for my form. As it was the form used for the Messiah, which I have the poster for. I'm using a laser cutter for precision. I have my form made, I need to know how to get the form for the corner blocks. For whatever reason, the Messiah drawing from the poster doesn't line up at all with Addie's forma G. So not sure where to go with all this.

There are corner blocks on the PDF I posted earlier.  Cut them out and glue it to some template material (e.g. the modeler's ply that Conor mentioned).  You'll still probably have to adjust the template to make it work.  Part of the process.  Pictures help to understand the part your asking for help.  Catnip's post is the usual order of operations with many different ways of achieving the same steps.  I understand your trying to solve your problems from where you're at not start over.

You mention the form and drawing doesn't line up.  Printers can be a source of error when printing out PDF patterns.  Some have to be scaled up or down.  Have you checked the dimensions of your form against the dimensions of the G form?  I believe Bruce Carlson posted measurements that he himself took.  If not him then someone else credible and I have it written down in my notes somewhere, but it's all here in the MN wonderland.    I usually do a search through Google with something like "g form dimensions site: maestronet.com".  Also are you sure the Messiah was made on the G form?  Some have argued it's closer to the PG form.  There's always a lot of head scratching trying to make the best guess.  Hence the euphemisms "inspired by...", "based on...", and "modeled after..."  

-Jim

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