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Turner violin Mittenwald imported


jandepora

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This time I hope I make my homeworks.

I think this is a Mittenwald violín imported to UK by John Turner mid 19th c.

It is fire branded 3 times, 2 in the top where the bridge must be placed, and 1 down the neck near the scroll. And with 2 more fire stamps in the back and in the neck. The scroll has too fire stamped symbols.

Inside it is full blocked and lined and it has a piece of paper in the mid of the back joint. The bassbar seams to be too short and more crude work than the rest of the inside work.

It has a notch in the one piece botton rib.

What is your opinion?

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Yes, I think you are quite right, you have a Mittenwald violin that was signed and retailed in 19th C. England. 3 or 4 years ago, I also had “Taylor London” stamped Mitenwald violin, mind you, mine was simply stamped beneath the button with two words, “Taylor” and “London” in capital letters. Mine was even reinforced at a thinish patch of the belly with an old German newspaper in Gothic print. The text of that seemed to be about the best way to feed cattle.

 

One has to bear in mind the “Continental Blockade” of the early 19th. C (because of Napoleon, I think) where England was quite cut off from continental Europe. In the late 18th C. the English made their own cheap violins (Thompson and similar), and this budget violin production died overnight as the blockade relented, and dealers such as Taylor could order much cheaper violins from Mittenwald and Markneukirchen. Much the same happened with the bows, where the English bow went of at a tangent in the 19h C

 

 

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10 hours ago, jandepora said:

 

 

 

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These are some very nice and interesting pegs!

I have a very similar single one, once mounted at a ca. 1900 Neuner & Hornsteiner, but it has more viola size and so I replaced and kept it.

The assumed date of this violin around mid of the 19th century would date the pegs to this period, too. Could be interesting for Eric Meyer.;)

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Mittenwald export is an interesting topic.

I have a "a la ville de Cremonne" with one piece lower rib and scroll fluting that goes to the very end. F-wings are also slightly fluted. One piece highly flamed back with slightly diagonal pattern.

What to think of that?  Could 1920s Laberte (one's obvious guess) look so Mittenwaldish? It would be hard to believe that Laberte would import from...

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35 minutes ago, antero said:

Mittenwald export is an interesting topic.

I have a "a la ville de Cremonne" with one piece lower rib and scroll fluting that goes to the very end. F-wings are also slightly fluted. One piece highly flamed back with slightly diagonal pattern.

What to think of that?  Could 1920s Laberte (one's obvious guess) look so Mittenwaldish? It would be hard to believe that Laberte would import from...

I thought that French violins of the 1920s period would have a two piece lower rib as they are built using an outside mold ?

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As the general opinion in this thread has been a tad negative about this Mittenwald violin,could someone point out (excepting the silly brand stamps) what makes this a poor violin ?

As a newbie, I was under the impression that Mittenwald violins were  a better quality German violin as they are built on an inside mold and are fully blocked and lined ?

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I belive it has been said here several times, that mere building method does not decide the quality.

Zillions of cheap Mirecourt violins are built with mold while several Italian big names used BOB at the time. It is about quality of material and level of workmanship.

And sound is yet another story...

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1 hour ago, antero said:

I belive it has been said here several times, that mere building method does not decide the quality.

Zillions of cheap Mirecourt violins are built with mold while several Italian big names used BOB at the time. It is about quality of material and level of workmanship.

And sound is yet another story...

I recently purchased a circa 1870 violin with a through neck and no lining or corner blocks. Suffice to say that I had to open up the violin and adjust the neck angle by puting a wedge underneath the neck root. Sadly, this has not properly resolved the issue,and the only course of action I have left is to convert the thru neck to a modern dovetail one such as the OP's Mittenwald violin had from the start. I also own a circa 1820 violin which appears to be BOB construction,but with corner blocks,linings,and a morticed neck. The latter violin is far better because of its superior construction method. Off the top of my head,the only Italian violins that I believed used BOB construction were the Gagliano family ( maybe also some cheap Testores ?),and I am pretty sure that they were fully lined and blocked. The early ones may have had a nailed neck,but I think that the later ones had mortised necks.

So to sum up, construction of a violin is very important as a starting prerequisite to getting an instrument to play like an instrument !

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57 minutes ago, Delabo said:

I recently purchased a circa 1870 violin with a through neck and no lining or corner blocks. Suffice to say that I had to open up the violin and adjust the neck angle by puting a wedge underneath the neck root. Sadly, this has not properly resolved the issue,and the only course of action I have left is to convert the thru neck to a modern dovetail one such as the OP's Mittenwald violin had from the start. I also own a circa 1820 violin which appears to be BOB construction,but with corner blocks,linings,and a morticed neck. The latter violin is far better because of its superior construction method. Off the top of my head,the only Italian violins that I believed used BOB construction were the Gagliano family ( maybe also some cheap Testores ?),and I am pretty sure that they were fully lined and blocked. The early ones may have had a nailed neck,but I think that the later ones had mortised necks.

So to sum up, construction of a violin is very important as a starting prerequisite to getting an instrument to play like an instrument !

That's what's called anecdotal evidence in it's purest form. I once had a through neck violin which was bad and another one (or two, three) morticed and they were much better.

Such coincidental experiences are unsignificant, it could have been just the other way round. All old violins suffer of neck sinking, nearly all need corrections and it can be unstable with moticed necks, too, if other variables (bassbar, thicknesses etc.) are weak.

In some thread is a list of many schools using the bob/through/neck/carved bar construction, including such as Brescia, Netherlands and more - all the pre 1800 and later italians had neck constructions which needed to be altered if you want to use them to modern standards, if you're not playing HIP.

I can't find any evidence in this thread that the OP instrument was called poor or bad, maybe a biased opinion? The only remark was that Jacob said they were "cheaper" for english dealers or musicians than home made, and that's no judgement about quality but about how economical they were produced, comparable with the difference between american or european and chinese wages today.

I can assure everybody, that I had many old Saxon, Bohemian or Salzkammergut violins of very refined workmanship, not speaking about tone, but without corner blocks and sometimes not even linings, in opposite to even more cheapish and roughly finished Mittenwalds, which were "fully lined and blocked" using the Cremones inside mould.

The OP seems to be a mid 19th century "average" good workmanship homeworker made instrument of an acceptable (to say the least) quality.

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46 minutes ago, Blank face said:

I can't find any evidence in this thread that the OP instrument was called poor or bad, maybe a biased opinion?

My apologies if I seemed a "tad negative" :lol: .  Maybe the second post in the thread " Just add it to your log pile..... " (perhaps the poster forgot to include a smiley) may have coloured my view of the other comments.

 

51 minutes ago, Blank face said:

The OP seems to be a mid 19th century "average" good workmanship homeworker made instrument of an acceptable (to say the least) quality.

 

This comment has to be good news for the OP assuming he purchased the violin at a reasonable price.

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